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| You believe in God? |
| Yes |
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44% |
[ 52 ] |
| No |
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26% |
[ 31 ] |
| Hard to explain |
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29% |
[ 35 ] |
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| Total Votes : 118 |
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 Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:08 pm
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Firstly, I would like to point out that everything we "believe" is not permanent. What I mean is that things can happen that change our beliefs, even when it comes to religion. I'm a voice of experience. I went to church almost every Sunday for three years, even though I wasn't sure I believed everything the ministers talked about. But I liked the feeling of the community and how friendly everyone was, so I went voluntarily. Then I didn't go to church for about one and a half years, and my grandfather died. And I decided right then and there that if there was such thing as a god, I didn't like him. At all. But when I think about it in the scientific sense, it's impossible for there to be such a thing as a god. Because he would have to be made out of something, and in order to be able to think, he'd have to be a multicellular organism, but he's supposed to be nothing and everything at the same time. Now, I don't know about you, but that makes to sense to me. Furthermore, in this day and age, Heaven and Hell are very hard to believe in, because, firstly, where are they? Is Heaven in the sky, and Hell under the earth's core? And if so, why can't I see Heaven when I'm flying in an airplane? All I see are clouds, and clouds are just water. I'll admit, though, that sometimes I get it into my mind that there is a God and there is a Satan, because of demonic possessions. Now, we've all seen the Exorcist, right? Well, that girl scares the bajeebus out of me. She always has. And knowing that that movie is based on a true story, as are the Amatyville Horror (I'm sorry, I probably didn't spell it right) and the Exorcism of Emily Rose and such movies like that absolutely terrifies me. So I know that if there really have been people who have been demonically possessed, there must really be a Devil, and if there's really a Devil, there really must be a God. But then, here we are, back at the start, thinking about things scientifically. There is also the psychological viewpoint. If people believe that they will be rewarded for their good deeds and punished for their sins, of course they'll choose to believe, because it gives them a security blanket. But then, if we're all rewarded for our good deeds and punished for our sins, then where is God now? Where is he when people are using his name to justify war and hate crimes? And where is he when innocent children are being kidnapped, raped, and murdered? Has he given up on us? Or does life really not matter enough that he's letting these things happen, and all we really have to worry about is what happens to us after we die? So again, sometimes I'm not sure what I believe, and it tends to change sometimes.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:04 pm
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:22 am
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:16 pm
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:32 pm
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:50 pm
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Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:23 pm
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This is a brutally long post, you have been warned.
Ultra Sarah I have no religion because I have no proof of any religion, and I have proof against religion
Aside from a vague remark that proves and changes nothing, you do your own argument a self-inflicted wound. I say this because what you have just said is nothing more than hear-say. If you have evidence against religion, please state which religion you intend to disprove and what your evidence and proof is; otherwise, I see no reason to believe your statements have validity or merit any real attention beyond this.
Ultra Sarah I guess I'm just not one for blind faith.
Me too, guess that's why I'm a (of the Protestant Faith, not Catholic) Christian. mrgreen
Not all religion is blind faith as you so callously put it, if you're making a reference to a specific religion or group of religions, please specify. The Bible says not to blindly believe and follow, although a good deal of people are more than content to do just that, but to test its scriptures against facts and prove or disprove them. That shows that the Bible is against blind faith; therefore, making it exempt from the category of "Blind Faith Religions."
I'll attempt to find the reference so that you may see yourself, I might have to ask my pastor.
SinginginSilence I was raised by a catholic and an atheist, that didn't work out. My mom decided to overcompensate for my dad and turned crazy christian. Luckily, I didn't turn out that way. I believe that there is a female and male deity. It's a balance issue. I never saw balance in the christian faith. Everything in nature has a two sides, male and female. It makes sense, to me, that the same belief can translate into faith. I guess that you could call my belief pagan. It doesn't matter what its name is, I believe it.
I apologize for the conflict and overcompensation caused by that upraising, but it doesn't tend to end nicely when two conflicting religions live under the same roof. I call atheism a religion because, for me, the definition of a religion is a set of beliefs and principles that govern ones life, which, from my interpretation, atheism falls under.
Your mother only did what she did, believe me on this, because she loved you. I do not approve what she might have done or the way she went about it, but I do approve of why she did it. Being a Catholic, your mother believed that if you did not become a Catholic and follow the Catholic beliefs, that you would go to hell and suffer for an eternity. Now she may have gone about it in a wrong manner, but she had pure intentions. Now, intentions do not justify what she did, know simply that she did it because she loved you and didn't want you to suffer an eternity in hell or be separated from her in Heaven. Having a child die or suffering is one of a mother's worst fears which is why she went about it in a very overbearing manner.
You did make a very inaccurate remark when you called Catholicism and Protestant Christianity the same. They are similar, use the same Book, but are different in a large amount of fundamental ways. It only showed an overgeneralized sign of discrimination based on one, not both, experience.
I notice my responses are getting brutally long so I'll attempt to shorten them.
If you have proof that Christianity, though you probably mean Catholicism, is unbalanced towards one gender, I ask for everyone's sake, that you please demonstrate your evidence.
Everything has more than two sides, there are many points which everything is split. Also your belief should have some exceptions in regards to things which are hermaphroditic. I'm also curious as to how said creatures fit into your belief. Who do they represent, who made them, or are they some byproduct of relationship troubles between your god and goddess, please don't take this as a swing at your beliefs, I really am serious on these.
A name is nothing more than a title given to something to help classify and understand it. A good example of this is a given creatures scientific name versus its more common name; however, seeing as there is no comparison when it comes to the detail given to scientific names and ordinary label names, there are so many names that are inaccurate, unfair, vague, and overused.
Raige No Kaze I have no specific beliefs. My mom told me (effectively) that I would burn in hell because I didn't believe in God and the bible. Personally, I believe that there is something out there.. more than we can see or touch.. I believe that there may be a god/goddess.. or other person of power.. but I don't believe in a specific person. The same as I believe that there are aliens and ghosts/spirits. It would be arrogant to assume that humans/creatures on Earth are the only beings in a universe so huge. If there is a god or goddess etc. out there, they may well be just a higher form of life to us.. Who can say, really? My beliefs mostly come from lack of arrogance. (in my opinion) And, just to make sure that I'm clear, I really don't intend to offend people! I'm not saying that not believing in a God/Goddess is arrogant for YOU. It's just my own personal inward belief.
I offer the same evidence I gave to SinginginSilence in regards to WHY your mother was so "effective" at what she did.
Truly, it's arrogant to assume anything to be factual without sufficient evidence to prove it.
Of course using your exact logic, i can say the exact opposite and say, "It would be arrogant to assume that human/creatures on Earth are not the only beings in a universe so huge." I will believe that you are correct only if you give your belief in the origin of man and other beings, then evidence to prove it. Then and only then can I say your statement has merited more discussion.
"If there is a god out there, it probably isn't a higher form of life to us, but a diety which created and rules the universe and deserves more than we can ever give him.. Who can say, really? " Show my fallacy here and you show your own.
Saying that your beliefs come from a lack of arrogance only shows me that you have a little too much to see what isn't arrogance, very much like those far into the ocean who can't see the land, your'e swimming in it.
Hey, don't worry about offending us. cool We're all here for a serious discussion so we know what to expect. I can respect your opinions; unfortunately, you have to respect mine in return. sweatdrop
minka18 religions remind me of high school groups/stereotypes. BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE some religions say that the others wont be saved. who is to know but only God. so f**k whoever says to change your believe because if they tell you to they are just afraid that you are on the right path and they aren't.
To argue against this would be to give it a thesis which it never had but I'm just stupid enough to do exactly that.
How do they remind you of high school groups/stereotypes; because, to me, a group in high school is one with a bunch of friends/people with similar social rankings that only care about superficialities. Now to say any one group of people who have joined together is one specific thing is to deny one of man's basic urges: to be different, distinct, remembered, and loved. Most go for the majority of this list but don't realize the value of the one they neglect. They may be unique and famous, but they aren't loved or cared about.
No religion is composed of people who are carbon-copies in belief and devotion. Taking this as proven fact allows me to say that there will be one person who is following for selfish reasons and is a horrible example for the real religion, that is why this is the favorite example of a religious person to be used as propaganda against religion. There will be someone who is completely devoted for no selfish reason that is considered a fanatic or a weakling or anything in between. They are considered a very rare byproduct of religion and are not taken as they should. Then there is every degree in between. Putting these all into one group allows me to say, with proof, that they aren't concerned about the same things; therefore, I can say they are not a high school group.
A stereotype is a label given to someone, some race, some gender, etc... that they did not choose themselves and are almost always untrue about the recipient, possibly applying to a single person per stereotype. Seeing as religion is a given choice and I have just proven that a stereotype isn't, I can say they aren't even resemblant of each other.
I agree with you that you can believe what you want to believe, I also believe I have the right to contradict you if you make a firm statement about it if I believe differently and I might also try to disprove you if I can.
When you said that fear motivated the religious person to say you were wrong, did it ever occur to you, that you making a statement with the intent to change someones mind such as "Believe in what you want to believe," a command if I've ever heard one, you just might have contradicted yourself and might have shown a teensy bit of hypocrisy, and I can most likely say without risk of being wrong that you are only saying such a vague remark because to respond without evidence would only prove it and you hope that will deter any contradictions. I responded with evidence and believe that you only say such a thing because you lack the ability and/or reason for why you should "f**k whoever." Your response also shows that you are content to use a false shield to prove your point and deflect any opposition without having to prove why. Also, you needn't use vulgarity to say something more eloquently said in a polite manner.
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Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:23 pm
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If that's all you have to say then I'll give you a simple response. Your remark is nothing more than a statement of what you believe and not why you believe it which is the point of this thread if I read it correctly. If you have evidence or reasons, please show us why, otherwise I can't say your statement is worth a response any longer than this.
Belle Pie Firstly, I would like to point out that everything we "believe" is not permanent.
Everything we "believe," as you put it, is crafted by three factors, which make sense when you think objectively about them. They are 1. Genetic Factors 2. Environmental Factors 3. and Spiritual Factors. Genetic Factors are things relating to physical attributes, mostly unchangeable things about a person. Environmental Factors deal with your upraising, social interactions, community, and a myriad of things I can't even begin to list or explain. Spiritual Factors are things involving your relation, this is my definition, everyone has their own way to describe it based on their beliefs so please don't debate this one point, with God.
These three factors can explain why twins, though genetically similar, can, and sometimes tend, to be different, sometimes to polar degrees. Yes, everyone's beliefs change because they were never set in your genetic code. Another reason for this is because they will never be fully developed in one human's given lifetime. I agree, I just wanted to explain why I did though.
Belle Pie What I mean is that things can happen that change our beliefs, even when it comes to religion. I'm a voice of experience. I went to church almost every Sunday for three years, even though I wasn't sure I believed everything the ministers talked about. But I liked the feeling of the community and how friendly everyone was, so I went voluntarily. Then I didn't go to church for about one and a half years, and my grandfather died. And I decided right then and there that if there was such thing as a god, I didn't like him. At all.
Yes, and things can happen that also cement them into us and make them as much a part of us as our own skin. I also love how everyone refers to themselves as "a voice of experience" or "a voice of reason" when humans clearly aren't even capable of keeping their own beliefs in order. That's why I have a Book for mine, it's available in many stores in many countries and it's called the Bible. I'm glad you enjoyed the community and friendliness of the people of your church, that's how it should be, although many people don't feel that way about their own. And lastly, are you saying that you believe that not going to church for one and a half years is why your grandfather died, please explain what you mean, I don't wish to misinterpret you so I'll wait for your response to finish my own on this section.
Belle Pie But when I think about it in the scientific sense, it's impossible for there to be such a thing as a god. Because he would have to be made out of something, and in order to be able to think, he'd have to be a multicellular organism, but he's supposed to be nothing and everything at the same time. Now, I don't know about you, but that makes to sense to me.
First off, on what are you basing these claims, you give no evidence and hear-say doesn't hold much power on my thoughts. Think of it this way. If God exists, it wouldn't be a far cry to say he doesn't follow the basic laws of physics we are tied to on this planet. If the God of the Bible is real, or whatever religion you wish with a God-like figure, he created this universe, making the laws with which we are bound. Using this as a basis, I can argue your point saying that he exists beyond the laws which he made and can, at a mere whim, alter, defy, and ignore them. The rest of your remarks regarding this fall apart after the first few fall so I'll move on.
Belle Pie Furthermore, in this day and age, Heaven and Hell are very hard to believe in, because, firstly, where are they? Is Heaven in the sky, and Hell under the earth's core? And if so, why can't I see Heaven when I'm flying in an airplane? All I see are clouds, and clouds are just water.
Now you're just being rude. First off, Heaven is, using the same logic put into my last response regarding God existing outside our reality, not located in the clouds but more likely located "where" God is. In cartoons, paintings, etc..., Heaven is depicted in the clouds because when someone is flying in the clouds, they feel a serene calm and receive comfort knowing that things are much larger than they seem. This would explain why it is a popular idea to imagine heaven existing among the clouds. Hell probably doesn't, can't say for sure, exist in the center of the Earth. Again, Hell is described as an eternally burning pit of fiery sulfur..., the description isn't too pleasant so I'll stop there, and the center of the earth is an eternally burning ball of fire. See why they seem to go together? In an effort for people to get the concept of what Heaven and Hell are like, they liken it to the things of this Earth.
Belle Pie I'll admit, though, that sometimes I get it into my mind that there is a God and there is a Satan, because of demonic possessions. Now, we've all seen the Exorcist, right? Well, that girl scares the bajeebus out of me. She always has. And knowing that that movie is based on a true story, as are the Amatyville Horror (I'm sorry, I probably didn't spell it right) and the Exorcism of Emily Rose and such movies like that absolutely terrifies me. So I know that if there really have been people who have been demonically possessed, there must really be a Devil, and if there's really a Devil, there really must be a God.
That logic isn't bad. It explains what your conveying nicely. Let's see what comes next.
Belle Pie But then, here we are, back at the start, thinking about things scientifically. There is also the psychological viewpoint. If people believe that they will be rewarded for their good deeds and punished for their sins, of course they'll choose to believe, because it gives them a security blanket.
I can use psychology too, let's see where this goes.
If people believe that there is no divine punishment for bad behavior or divine reward for good behavior, then they can rationalize anything they do by using logic and reason. Now an example of this would be when a man doesn't have enough money to buy food for family, they can justify that by killing and looting, a rich single person's house, they have logically done more good by killing the rich person rather than letting him live, justifying his deed. Seeing as he doesn't believe in the divine, his actions make sense using his logic.
Belle Pie But then, if we're all rewarded for our good deeds and punished for our sins, then where is God now? Where is he when people are using his name to justify war and hate crimes? And where is he when innocent children are being kidnapped, raped, and murdered? Has he given up on us? Or does life really not matter enough that he's letting these things happen, and all we really have to worry about is what happens to us after we die?
Were you Catholic by any chance, but I digress, a more suitable question is, what if he stopped these actions? What if, a bolt of lightning killed every person doing these sins, and a booming voice declared that this was done by the Hand of God for His glory. Well at that point, there wouldn't be a logical way for any human to deny His existence. Now, this would be a good thing for all sides because He has made it very clear that He exists, Heaven and Hell are real, and the Bible is correct. Sounds good, right? Bad really, by doing this He has made free will nonexistent, contradicting one of His promises. By doing that, He has proven He is viable to faults and I can only speculate on what that would cause, but I can imagine something to the effect of the universe imploding in on itself. Again, I can only speculate. So He won't do that. Then you make a fallacy when you expect of Him. God, who made existence, who purified the Earth on one occasion, and parts of the Earth multiple times, who sent His Son to die the most horrible death in recorded history on a cross and then spend three days in Hell to pay for everyone's sins and give everyone a way to escape Hell, and who is undeniably more generous and merciful than I could list reasons for with a thousand lifetimes. If that isn't reason enough, then by all means ask for more reasons, I've got plenty.
Also, he does care, he just can't interfere on our free will. I've seen things that science can't explain when science observed them. They couldn't even lie and say they had a clue how it could have happened. He can speak to His believers, just He doesn't do this verbally. I will assume someone might not understand this so I'll expound. He can communicate to His followers through circumstances, the biggest communicator, or through unexplainable feelings, sometimes giving followers feelings that make sense to a believer and not others. I now have a good understanding what the Bible meant when it said that those who don't believe, can never understand. That they can read the Word of God and not understand what it means.
Belle Pie So again, sometimes I'm not sure what I believe, and it tends to change sometimes.
A person's beliefs can be one of two things, stiff or flexible. Stiff beliefs, if they can be proven wrong, break the persons faith and usually makes them cynical, looking for explanations when they already have them. Flexible beliefs can be bent, beaten, and twisted, but they can't be broken, and when someone puts pressure on them and bends them over backwards, they spring back with the same amount of force. I wish to see which one you are. |
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:17 am
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:23 am
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:39 pm
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Reply
