~creation Vs evolution~ your thoughts?

[King Robert Silvermyst]

ok, I'm going to stray the focus off of the whole Christianity vs Evolution, since that's what it's starting to become. There are many different religions out there, and no one religion has more or less evidence that they are right and everyone else is wrong. In fact, i tend to be disgusted by such thoughts because it creates chaos, isfet, and elite-ism. Such things are what have caused many great and horrifying evils throughout history, such as the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, the slaughter of Ghandi and those who joined his peaceful protest, the murders of many christian priests, and Al-Qaieda. Even Hitler used religion to start feuling his war.

But I'm ranting on. Time to get to what I intended to say. In the Kemetic Orthodoxy, both in ancient times as well as in today's day and age, we believe that creation is not a single point in history where everything was created and netjer, or God, or Whomever you pray to, just said "here you go, here's where it all starts." We believe that creation begins every day. In antiquity, it was as the Aspect of Netjer Ra rose from the horizon, being reborn and bringing creation anew, known as Zep Tepi, or The First Instance. Now with modern science, we know the sun does not revolve around us, but vice versa. Yet we take the old beliefs in that everyday is a renewal of creation. A clean slate for many new beginings. Creation is a constant process that has never stopped happening. By this, evolution is part of creation, because if things are not allowed to evolve in some way, be it physically or spiritualy, then creation becomes stagnant.  

[thesystemisbroken]

King Robert Silvermyst

ok, I'm going to stray the focus off of the whole Christianity vs Evolution, since that's what it's starting to become. There are many different religions out there, and no one religion has more or less evidence that they are right and everyone else is wrong. In fact, i tend to be disgusted by such thoughts because it creates chaos, isfet, and elite-ism. Such things are what have caused many great and horrifying evils throughout history, such as the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, the slaughter of Ghandi and those who joined his peaceful protest, the murders of many christian priests, and Al-Qaieda. Even Hitler used religion to start feuling his war.

But I'm ranting on. Time to get to what I intended to say. In the Kemetic Orthodoxy, both in ancient times as well as in today's day and age, we believe that creation is not a single point in history where everything was created and netjer, or God, or Whomever you pray to, just said "here you go, here's where it all starts." We believe that creation begins every day. In antiquity, it was as the Aspect of Netjer Ra rose from the horizon, being reborn and bringing creation anew, known as Zep Tepi, or The First Instance. Now with modern science, we know the sun does not revolve around us, but vice versa. Yet we take the old beliefs in that everyday is a renewal of creation. A clean slate for many new beginings. Creation is a constant process that has never stopped happening. By this, evolution is part of creation, because if things are not allowed to evolve in some way, be it physically or spiritualy, then creation becomes stagnant.

I completely agree with you. And thanks for ending the Christianity vs. Evolutionism thing.  

[Kachan36]

FREAKAman01

Also evolution could not have been true because nothing as complicated
as human life or anything that exists right down to molecules could have
came about by accident and especialy not by a big explosion.

This seems to be a popular argument for creationism. I've heard it many times, and I have to say, I do not understand it at all. To me it is more probable that the universe organized itself the way it did because that was the easiest way to do it than that some supreme being designed it that way. I just can't picture anyone or anything deciding to take atomic particles and assign positive or negative charges to each so that the negative ones will circle the positive ones and form atoms, which will then bond to other atoms using very specific rules to form molecules. Then the molecules will form gases, which will eventually compress into planets circling around huge balls of energy called stars. One planet will be just the right distance from its star to support the molecules that form water. Then other molecules can form proteins that will build all kinds of plant and animal tissues, and eventually organize into a creature with a brain. The brain will tell all the creature's other tissues what to do and it will get bigger and bigger until it can actually question its own existence. Once these creatures can question their origins, they will worship me, but only if they want to, because their brains also give them the ability to be creative, solve problems and make decisions and judgments for themselves.

Somehow, it is more believable to me that we just evolved this way and created the story of creation because our brains got big enough and complex enough to want to know where we came from, so we tried to come up with an explanation before we were able to discover the truth. To me, the complexity of the universe points more toward evolution than toward a creator.  

[FREAKAman01]

Kachan36

FREAKAman01

Also evolution could not have been true because nothing as complicated
as human life or anything that exists right down to molecules could have
came about by accident and especialy not by a big explosion.

This seems to be a popular argument for creationism. I've heard it many times, and I have to say, I do not understand it at all. To me it is more probable that the universe organized itself the way it did because that was the easiest way to do it than that some supreme being designed it that way. I just can't picture anyone or anything deciding to take atomic particles and assign positive or negative charges to each so that the negative ones will circle the positive ones and form atoms, which will then bond to other atoms using very specific rules to form molecules. Then the molecules will form gases, which will eventually compress into planets circling around huge balls of energy called stars. One planet will be just the right distance from its star to support the molecules that form water. Then other molecules can form proteins that will build all kinds of plant and animal tissues, and eventually organize into a creature with a brain. The brain will tell all the creature's other tissues what to do and it will get bigger and bigger until it can actually question its own existence. Once these creatures can question their origins, they will worship me, but only if they want to, because their brains also give them the ability to be creative, solve problems and make decisions and judgments for themselves.

Somehow, it is more believable to me that we just evolved this way and created the story of creation because our brains got big enough and complex enough to want to know where we came from, so we tried to come up with an explanation before we were able to discover the truth. To me, the complexity of the universe points more toward evolution than toward a creator.

Well if you put aside the aspect for a bit that we could have only been
created over a huge amount of time, it makes a bit more sense I think.
The chances of such a thing happening by itself are so high that they
are virtually impossible.

I believe that man was created not over a huge period of time
but in an instant. the Bible says God made us from the dust of the earth.

if you put into motion the idea that there is a being, who knows all,
and is just, and righteous above everyone else, who created the idea of
math and science and thought, it is more probable and even I would think
more acceptable by man that we were created instead of being an accident.

also if you look at anything really closely, you'll will find it has a purpose.
plants, animals, insects, bacteria, each one having tasks to complete.
If we happened by chance, why would we still be here today?
our lives would have no purpose, there would be no absolutes
(which there are) why not murder? why not rape? why not destroy?
evolution is just another theory made up by man because humans don't
like having to pay for their actions.

I don't think God's intention for our creation was just so he could have
a nice little band of followers.

And in your last paragraph, can't the same thing be argued against
evolution?  

[Ink_Weaver_Heart]

God's name has not been forgotten by evolution, because it is not a living breathing thing. It is a theory. Hence the Theory of Evolution. Why do I think you are the way that you are? Because you have choisen to live your life in that way. As for the signs you have recieved over the internet, they are completely false. That is merely a program set up by a person to inspire people through the "words of God."

As for the coincidences, do you think every little thing is planned out? Every mistake or simple misplaced foot? If two men are fighting, they fall on a woodstack, a piece of wood hits another piece of wood, knocking it into the air, and hitting the precise spot spinal vertebre that causes one of them to be paralyzed? Or maybe it just hits him humorously in the head? Is this the work of God?

No, even you must agree that it is just by chance and the rare probability that that series of events would occur. The same things happen in life, but on a larger scale with larger weights. Do you deny math the same as you deny sciences?


You say that God has said these miraculous things, and you try to think like God as best as you can. But how can you -- a mere mortal -- know the thoughts of God? No, you know only the "actions" of God, but not WHY.

And tell me, how is God misunderstood, if you know him so personally?

And who am I to say these things to you? I am who recognizes your attempts to prove your religious obedience by reciting "quotes" of God and recounting events that have nothing in relation to your argument. As I said before, God does not use the internet. And do not tell me that God could if he wanted to. People would know. There is always an IP adress to where these "messages" come from. There is always a source, or else it is not possible to be displayed on the internet, it would be invalid.

I said nothing of God not listening, and nothing of impossibilities. I said nothing of no answered prayers. I spoke of a logical explanation for them. That goes to further prove the allowed separation of ideas between evolution and religion. As I have said, I believe in both evolution and creation. It is only through the widely diverse capacities of acceptance for equally diverse ideas that religious and scientific studiers have.

The clay does not say to the potter "why are you making me this way?" because the clay could not speak. If they clay had a voice to give his opinions, he would have a lot to say.

I never said, again, anything about impossibilities, especially pertaining to perfection. And for mortals, imperfection IS impossible. And mark this as my only statement of impossibilities.  

[Genesis_verse_1]

Just because God's name is not a living and breathing thing that does not mean His name hasn't been forgotten. People rely on the things of this world that don't last forever for their fulfillment. Things that are seen will disappear but things that are unseen will last forever.

Evolution is a theory, yet it is taught as fact. Besides there are six different meanings to evolution. One of them is micro-evolution. This is the only thing that is true about evolution. Micro-evolution means variations within the kind of animal; however once scientists figure that out they think it is proof for the other five.

It is true I chose the way I want to be but I never wanted to be this way. I thought of being religious a couple times in my life but I thought that it wasn't for me. I could go back to the way I was and not worry about God but I don't. I wouldn't be this way if God's Word wasn't true. Jesus said that He reveals Himself to those that do not seek Him. Also I did not get signs or messages from the internet. There is a book called True Life in God and there were plenty of time that I opened the book at random and got a message that applied to a situation I was in and how to deal with it. My sister just experienced that exact thing only she didn't open the book at random. So yes every little thing is planned out. We learn from mistakes so maybe they aren't mistakes at all because there is a point to them. The men wouldn't have become paralyzed if they weren't fighting. Also I know of a man who was paralyzed and he could only wink an eye. This man wrote a book just by winking an eye. He died two weeks before or after (I don't remember) the book was published. His mission in life was fulfilled. Not to mention disabilities can be overcame so it probably would be the work of God. Things aren't always what they seem in the present moment.

I try to think like God or Jesus by imitation. If I learn to act the way Jesus did I could think like Him. Also everything isn't revealed at once, it would be too much to handle; however gradually everything is revealed. God is misunderstood by those who don't know Him. heart

God uses people to reach others. He wants us to unite and work together and people use the internet.

Water and oil don't mix so how can creation and evolution? Creation is based on the Bible and evolution is based on human philosophy.

The story of the clay was not to be taken literally but as an example.

If that is your only statement of impossibilities why is it hard to believe things on a supernatural level?  

[King Robert Silvermyst]

You say that evolution and creation cannot coexist. Let's think about this for a moment. Were it not for creation, there would be nothing. if not for evolution, all things would be stagnant. Evolution does not means we came from monkies. Evolution is another word for change. Have you gone through a single day that something hasn't changed? There is duality to all things. Without trials, we cannot grow stronger. Without faith, either in a higher being or in ourselves, we cannot overcome trials. Without change, life becomes stagnant. Nothing would ever be learned. The two can and do mix together. Look at nature. many species of animals evolvedwith different traits than thier ancestors to better survive. Look at yourt pet dog. Hundreds of years ago, that breed didn't exist. it wasn't until humans interbred and trained wolves until they got the desired result. In that there is evolution, even though it is a man-made one.  

[azrael the reaper_95210]

King Robert Silvermyst

You say that evolution and creation cannot coexist. Let's think about this for a moment. Were it not for creation, there would be nothing. if not for evolution, all things would be stagnant. Evolution does not means we came from monkies. Evolution is another word for change. Have you gone through a single day that something hasn't changed? There is duality to all things. Without trials, we cannot grow stronger. Without faith, either in a higher being or in ourselves, we cannot overcome trials. Without change, life becomes stagnant. Nothing would ever be learned. The two can and do mix together. Look at nature. many species of animals evolvedwith different traits than thier ancestors to better survive. Look at yourt pet dog. Hundreds of years ago, that breed didn't exist. it wasn't until humans interbred and trained wolves until they got the desired result. In that there is evolution, even though it is a man-made one.

yes, exactly. they go hand in hand. they are both true in my book.

the way i see it, evolution is a real process that occurs, but I say that it is a process by which god has created what the world is today. all that scientists have done is discovered yet another of the processes he uses.

someone said earlier that god created us from dust. well, yeah, if you follow the theory of evolution, then originally it was the micro organisms that came first, which evolved into insects, which evolved into aquatic spinless creatures, which evolved into spined aquatic creatures, which evolved into amphibians, which evolved into reptiles, which evolved into birds and mammals. so all in all, yeah you could say we came from the dust, so to say. (pretty sure i got the order semi-correct.)  

[Ink_Weaver_Heart]

Genesis_verse_1

So yes every little thing is planned out. We learn from mistakes so maybe they aren't mistakes at all because there is a point to them. The men wouldn't have become paralyzed if they weren't fighting. Also I know of a man who was paralyzed and he could only wink an eye. This man wrote a book just by winking an eye. He died two weeks before or after (I don't remember) the book was published. His mission in life was fulfilled. Not to mention disabilities can be overcame so it probably would be the work of God. Things aren't always what they seem in the present moment.
If every little thing is planned out, what do we, as humans, have to say about what happens in our lives? And it is called "learning from mistakes" because mistakes is the familiar term we use to refer to something unintentional that had adverse side effects. When we "learn from mistakes" we are merely trying not to repeat the same mistakes over again. It's called conditional responses. If something is harmful to you, you learn not to do it again. Take a look at pavlovs dog x] Ahhhh! I said nothing of things not seeming to be themselves at the present and then evloving into something further. As for the man with the wink in his eye, it was his own determinedness that kept him alive to finish his work, you see it all the time in those sad individual terminally ill patient stories.

Water and oil don't mix so how can creation and evolution? Creation is based on the Bible and evolution is based on human philosophy.
And why does creation and evolution have to be water and oil? It's only the perception by most people that they are so different. Creation is based on God creating us from dust. Evolution is based on us evolving from the dust. It is the same thing! I am astounded that so many are blind to it!

The story of the clay was not to be taken literally but as an example.
And so was my answer. And on another note, you cannot tell someone how to interpret a saying or phrase.

If that is your only statement of impossibilities why is it hard to believe things on a supernatural level?
And God is supernatural? Clarification: Super natural means that it is beyond nature, uninvolved with the laws that bind it and such-like. In my opinion, God is what is nature is what is everything.

Eh, I'm fairly tired, not to mention a headache, so I'll only be commenting on a few parts of what you've said. You'll find my statements in bold above, in the quotes.

Oh, and in my last post, I meant "perfection" not "imperfection."  

[Verderbnis]

Isn't it enough to look at a beautiful garden without believing in fairies?  

[rex_brandy]

FREAKAman01

And just for the record, it is not true that nobody can back their beliefs
with real evidence. The Bible is backed by hundreds of ancient documents
and accounts that retell the same stories that the Bible tells.

For example almost all major empires or nations that have existed according
to what the Bible says existed after the Flood one way or another have
ancient legends weather altered or not of a great flood that covered all the
earth. Some of these stories even tell of how only one family survived
via large boat and that lines up with the Bible.

Also, evidence has been found that carbon dating does not work for
dating anything back any further than a few thousand years.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-c14-disprove-the-bible

AND it does not take millions of years for coal and oil to form naturally
because scientists have done so in a much shorter amount of time.

And how could the grand canyon have been made but by a sudden
movement in the earths plates and huge amounts of water?

Also, every evolutionary stage of man
that scientists think are relevent such as the pilt down man and
Neanderthal man have been hoaxes fabricated by people.
http://www.nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.html

Also evolution could not have been true because nothing as complicated
as human life or anything that exists right down to molecules could have
came about by accident and especialy not by a big explosion.

please feel free to express your views.

Dude first the Bible is way over exaggerated! Many of the stories of what happened are true but have been altered to make people think that there is a special force somewhere. This may be true, but people are obsessive about GOD who is probably just something that they wanted to call a some unnamed force but then it evolved and people think GOD is a man that loves them, when IT is actually some kind of force that connects everything together so the entire universe does not collapse on itself. This is the theory that every positively charged atom and every positively particle have a negatively charged particle on the direct opposite side of the universe.

Also how can you say carbon dating only goes back a few thousand years when there is recorded history of humans then and dinosaurs have been proven to have an exact age which is millions of years old.

Tectonic plates is the ground beneath us being moved by the lava at the earth's core. How else would mountains and volcanoes be formed? The grand Canyon was not made by "sudden" movements of tectonic plates and huge amounts of water. This happened over thousands of years when the ocean in that area still was that high. The ocean became lower after the north and south pole froze.

How can you say that Neanderthal doesn't exist when they have found skulls that have been proven to be early humans by DNA and carbon dating? Facial Recognition also proves that they looked identical to us.

Actually life was started by molecules that evolved into microscopic creatures which got larger and larger over 4 billion years, but they were so simple that they didn't even have DNA "I think what we're looking for is some kind of molecule that is simple enough that it can be made by physical processes on the young Earth, yet complicated enough that it can take charge of making more of itself."(Andy Knoll http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/origins/knoll.html)

But I do agree with you that a big boom could not work because that would mean that in the beginning there was nothing and "nothing" got so worked up that BOOM it exploded and there was something. I believe that everything was there and it just WAS unless it is over exaggerated and Boom there was one atom which steadily evolved.  

[rex_brandy]

Kachan36

FREAKAman01

Also evolution could not have been true because nothing as complicated
as human life or anything that exists right down to molecules could have
came about by accident and especialy not by a big explosion.

This seems to be a popular argument for creationism. I've heard it many times, and I have to say, I do not understand it at all. To me it is more probable that the universe organized itself the way it did because that was the easiest way to do it than that some supreme being designed it that way. I just can't picture anyone or anything deciding to take atomic particles and assign positive or negative charges to each so that the negative ones will circle the positive ones and form atoms, which will then bond to other atoms using very specific rules to form molecules. Then the molecules will form gases, which will eventually compress into planets circling around huge balls of energy called stars. One planet will be just the right distance from its star to support the molecules that form water. Then other molecules can form proteins that will build all kinds of plant and animal tissues, and eventually organize into a creature with a brain. The brain will tell all the creature's other tissues what to do and it will get bigger and bigger until it can actually question its own existence. Once these creatures can question their origins, they will worship me, but only if they want to, because their brains also give them the ability to be creative, solve problems and make decisions and judgments for themselves.

Somehow, it is more believable to me that we just evolved this way and created the story of creation because our brains got big enough and complex enough to want to know where we came from, so we tried to come up with an explanation before we were able to discover the truth. To me, the complexity of the universe points more toward evolution than toward a creator.

You are exactly correct.  

[rex_brandy]

Altogether I think that GOD is just another name for anything and everything there ever was and will be.  

[rex_brandy]

Genesis_verse_1

Scripture is inspired by God. Couldn't man alter the theory of evolution? Scripture can be proven by our obedience to The Law. All wisdom begins with obedience to the Ten Commandments. Why is it hard to believe that God exists and He is Love? I heard countless stories on how people were absolutely lost in life and many wanted to commit suicide. God saved them not evolution.

GOD saved them? THATS BULLSH*T god is not a living thing it is a thought created by people to make there lives a little bit easier.  

[rex_brandy]

Genesis_verse_1

It is true man cannot alter what has happened on the past but man can alter what we know of the past. I know that the Bible was inspired by God because if it wasn't all that was said will be a lie and God cannot deny himself.

Obedience does not close off the mind to questioning but opens it. Once I started to follow God I wanted to know more and more and I asked Him questions and He answered!

If it is not God that saves them then how are prayers answered? When people are cornered in life they ask for a sign from God and He gives them a sign to let them know that they are there. I ask for signs all the time and I receive. Jesus said "Ask and you will receive." He doesn't forsake anyone except those that rebel. He is Love and Love love us.

how can you say this? I said to GOD that if he or she were real that they should do something to prove it but thats something never happened so you are probably self-consciously using things that you know will happen to use as "signs".