Your views on vegetarianism!

[Your Random Lover]

I don't want mind people who are vegetarians but I think this is funny. I heard it from a comedian on tv.
"Cows and other animals fart smelly farts. Those farts are full of methane gas that destroy the ozone. I help the environment by eating cows and stopping their farts. But vegetarians eat all the plants that turn the nasty methane gas and turn it into clean oxygen. So therefore vegetarians are killing the environment."


I thought that was good.  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

Khalida Nyoka

When it comes to animals in general, the only food-stock I really feel bad for are pigs. They are intelligent and emotional, and they are made to watch the other pigs ahead of them in the slaughter-line get their throats slit, and dropped into a vat of boiling water. Some of the pigs don't die of blood loss first.

Chickens are birds, and maybe only slightly more intelligent than turkeys (read: won't drown in rain). Ranch-chickens are only reactionary creatures. They don't get scared, or lament their lot in life. All they do is produce, and die. They can feel pain, but the birds are just too stupid to correlate things (e.g., "why am I feeling pain?").

The story of "turkeys being so stupid they look up into the rain and drown" is an urban legend. Turkeys may not be extremely intelligent, but they're not as stupid as everyone seems to want to think. Nor are chickens. I read a book last year on animal intelligence which included dozens of studies on a wide variety of species, including several types of birds. Chickens were one species studied, and they were found to have abilities in abstract thought.

Here are articles on studies of animal intelligence:
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/06/30/animalintelligence_ani.html?category=earth&guid=20060630160030

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/animal-minds/virginia-morell-text

http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2007/edition_07-29-2007/Animal_Intelligence  

[Khalida Nyoka]

Nemesis Erinys

Khalida Nyoka

When it comes to animals in general, the only food-stock I really feel bad for are pigs. They are intelligent and emotional, and they are made to watch the other pigs ahead of them in the slaughter-line get their throats slit, and dropped into a vat of boiling water. Some of the pigs don't die of blood loss first.

Chickens are birds, and maybe only slightly more intelligent than turkeys (read: won't drown in rain). Ranch-chickens are only reactionary creatures. They don't get scared, or lament their lot in life. All they do is produce, and die. They can feel pain, but the birds are just too stupid to correlate things (e.g., "why am I feeling pain?").

The story of "turkeys being so stupid they look up into the rain and drown" is an urban legend. Turkeys may not be extremely intelligent, but they're not as stupid as everyone seems to want to think. Nor are chickens. I read a book last year on animal intelligence which included dozens of studies on a wide variety of species, including several types of birds. Chickens were one species studied, and they were found to have abilities in abstract thought.

Here are articles on studies of animal intelligence:
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/06/30/animalintelligence_ani.html?category=earth&guid=20060630160030

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/animal-minds/virginia-morell-text

http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2007/edition_07-29-2007/Animal_Intelligence

*is about to follow and read those links*

It is hard to believe that any animal would actually kill themselves in the way I'd said...

Though one way or another, I'm still inclined to say that chickens are non-intelligent. My father-in-law grew up on a chicken ranch, and got to interact with the birds every day for almost 20 years. From his experience with a large population over a long period of time, I'm more inclined to accept his opinion on it, than I am some other person who probably didn't spend their younger years around the animals.

I will go follow those links now, and will probably edit this post.

~
After following the links:
The first really needs to supply more information. Just saying that studies have shown something doesn't cover it. What were, in this case chickens, run through/subjected to? Furthermore, the fact that the PCRM is so strongly tied to PETA immediately calls the validity of their "experiments" into question, as they have an overwhelming desire to find results supporting their view.

The second link details the experiments of only a few researchers. It really should be broadened a bit more. No majro criticism, just stating that as of yet it is too limited to be certain of any conclusions.

As far as the hird link goes:
Of course elephants/mammals have empathy. The limbic brain is present, ergo emotion is possible. As far as elephants doing chores they weren't trained to do... can they claim that the elephant never saw them do the work before? Couldn't it just be the case that the elephant saw what was being done, and a "monkey see, monkey do" situation resulted? People are notorious for projecting human traits where there are none (e.g., "stupid computer!").  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

Khalida Nyoka

Nemesis Erinys

Khalida Nyoka

When it comes to animals in general, the only food-stock I really feel bad for are pigs. They are intelligent and emotional, and they are made to watch the other pigs ahead of them in the slaughter-line get their throats slit, and dropped into a vat of boiling water. Some of the pigs don't die of blood loss first.

Chickens are birds, and maybe only slightly more intelligent than turkeys (read: won't drown in rain). Ranch-chickens are only reactionary creatures. They don't get scared, or lament their lot in life. All they do is produce, and die. They can feel pain, but the birds are just too stupid to correlate things (e.g., "why am I feeling pain?").

The story of "turkeys being so stupid they look up into the rain and drown" is an urban legend. Turkeys may not be extremely intelligent, but they're not as stupid as everyone seems to want to think. Nor are chickens. I read a book last year on animal intelligence which included dozens of studies on a wide variety of species, including several types of birds. Chickens were one species studied, and they were found to have abilities in abstract thought.

Here are articles on studies of animal intelligence:
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/06/30/animalintelligence_ani.html?category=earth&guid=20060630160030

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/animal-minds/virginia-morell-text

http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2007/edition_07-29-2007/Animal_Intelligence

*is about to follow and read those links*

It is hard to believe that any animal would actually kill themselves in the way I'd said...

Though one way or another, I'm still inclined to say that chickens are non-intelligent. My father-in-law grew up on a chicken ranch, and got to interact with the birds every day for almost 20 years. From his experience with a large population over a long period of time, I'm more inclined to accept his opinion on it, than I am some other person who probably didn't spend their younger years around the animals.

I will go follow those links now, and will probably edit this post.

~
After following the links:
The first really needs to supply more information. Just saying that studies have shown something doesn't cover it. What were, in this case chickens, run through/subjected to? Furthermore, the fact that the PCRM is so strongly tied to PETA immediately calls the validity of their "experiments" into question, as they have an overwhelming desire to find results supporting their view.

The second link details the experiments of only a few researchers. It really should be broadened a bit more. No majro criticism, just stating that as of yet it is too limited to be certain of any conclusions.

As far as the hird link goes:
Of course elephants/mammals have empathy. The limbic brain is present, ergo emotion is possible. As far as elephants doing chores they weren't trained to do... can they claim that the elephant never saw them do the work before? Couldn't it just be the case that the elephant saw what was being done, and a "monkey see, monkey do" situation resulted? People are notorious for projecting human traits where there are none (e.g., "stupid computer!").

I apologize for the weakness of the sources. I really just found them on the spur of the moment. When I have more time, I'll find more informative sources.  

[Khalida Nyoka]

Nemesis Erinys

I apologize for the weakness of the sources. I really just found them on the spur of the moment. When I have more time, I'll find more informative sources.

Just as a matter of clarity, I wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't meaning to criticize you. If you find the time, feel free to do a search and share what you find. None of the comments I made about the sources were even partially directed towards you.

You have made no comment to indicate that you took any of what I've said in a way I didn't intend... I just felt the need to clarify. This is the internet, and I'd rather we kept things impersonal instead of accidentally upsetting each other (tends to have an intelligence/conversation-stopping effect).  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

Khalida Nyoka

Nemesis Erinys

I apologize for the weakness of the sources. I really just found them on the spur of the moment. When I have more time, I'll find more informative sources.

Just as a matter of clarity, I wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't meaning to criticize you. If you find the time, feel free to do a search and share what you find. None of the comments I made about the sources were even partially directed towards you.

You have made no comment to indicate that you took any of what I've said in a way I didn't intend... I just felt the need to clarify. This is the internet, and I'd rather we kept things impersonal instead of accidentally upsetting each other (tends to have an intelligence/conversation-stopping effect).

Oh, no worries. I hadn't assumed anything like that. Hopefully I will have time to find some better information.  

[Ophelianime]

I could never give up meat burning_eyes  

[werebunny131]

I always loved animals. So one time i decided i would become a vegetarian. Then I realized that I would have to give up bacon. That was the end of my vegetarian streak. it lasted about a minute.  

[itsalwaysbeentoolate]

i became a vegetarian about a month ago and am sticking with it. for protein, i eat peanut butter and eggs and stuff. and lots of foods have iron in them, though i dont quite know which ones exactly. your parents have no right to force you to eat meat, especially if it goes against your beliefs.  

[Shenyu]

Well as far as I heard, I am a "flexiterian"... I did not even know that word existed...
I don't eat much meat, but I not because of moral reasons, I just don't like much. And I don't need it every day.
It started when I was about 12. My family has meat every evening and I just said "I don't want a steak today" and so on for the next days. Then on evening I ate chicken, and the next days I did not touch meat. And this is how it goes until now... which is quite a loooooooooooong time.

I don't think it is entirely wrong to kill animals for food, but I think we could do that in more human ways. I know it would cost more money, but I think that does not matter. So I don't buy that cheap meat anymore when I actually buy some.

For the protein, vitamin stuff. As far as I heard there are some nutrients in animals that are not in vegetables in THAT connection. So at least children should eat both. BUT that does mean, that you have to eat half of a pig on toast^^ At least fish is necessary for natural omega3 acid.

What I mentioned is that when you talk to some vegetarians and you tell them you eat meat they look at you as if you would have a dead zoo in your freezer... this is scary.
I think you should eat meat wisely so you can value it. I could never do without an English rumpsteak... *yummie* But I don't eat that every week. Twice a year is fine for me. And not only because it is so expensive. I think it should be something special. Slaughter cows is not like harvesting corn or something...  

[hippylu]

There are a lot of things to consider when being a vegetarian...I have been one a year, and recently I have visited a natropath because of health issues and he gave me a new perspective on this.
Humans are not meant to be herbevoirs (sp..sorry) we evolved as omnivores, our bodies need the protein and vitamins of meat to surrvive. But, I do not find health issues of mine more important than supporting the torture of animals in factory farms etc. If I supported that/denied that it existed, I couldn't live with myself. And since I can't afford freerange beef/chicken etc. and still can't trust where it came from even then, it is easier for me (whose family are total meat eaters) to just cut out meat entirely as to not confuse people and to refrain from eating meat.
If I owned a farm, where my animals were treated kindly with a lot of land, and I had a lot of chickens or somthing, considering I would have the heart to do it, I would eat meat, because I would know exactly where it came from etc.
For the time being, I believe the healthiest people today eat tons of veggies, lean protein (fish, chicken, lean cuts of beef etc.), some fruit...a well balenced diet.
But vegetarians can get the protien they need, it's just a lot harder, get protein powder (wey or rice, I found is the best), low fat yogurt, and yes, even eggs are a real lifesaver sometimes, and veggies with every meal, take a vitamin if needed. I take a B12 vitamin (in methyl...somthing or other ...the other kind is only 30% absorbable, if you want more info on vitamins PM me). I've been eating really unhealthy latly (affects of roadtrips) and I have been taking more of my vitamins.
And to be completely frank, my period reggularity has completely stopped, at times for months and I think this is because of my diet.,
so don't let people tellyou there are not consequences, there are... but I think they are worth it, becuase I just could not live with myself if I supported the industry my family supported, I also feel that although my family eats beef they eat a lot of red meat and probably too much meat, that's where it can get unhealthy, so I believe I am healthier (although not as healthy as I could be) than most americans/my family, but the americans that do balence meat well with their diet, are probably working a lot less to get their protein levels and B vitamin levels than I am, and are probably a lot healthier, maybe even more energetic
Make sure you get enough protein (I think it's liek 43 grams a day for a woman) through nuts (nuts are really good for you, snack on them! almonds...no cashews though)
I also take Hemp seed oil, which is hell to swallow but gives you great omega-6 and omega-3s, the capsules of flax seed oil just don't cut it.
don't be afraid of being a lacto-ovo vegetarian (a egg and dairy eating vegetarian) , it can really help, as long as you do it healhily and with veggies, with the protein. I personally hate milk and drink soy or rice milk, so the hormone controversy isn't really a problem for me , I buy organic (I don't know if that's the right terminology for cheese) cheese, and yogurt and I always have tons of veggies to eat and fruit to snack on and nuts, and my health is looking up
mix some protein powder into some yogurt or smoothies, it's good for you, and if you get a good kind you won't taste it
it takes work, but if this is the right thing for you, go for it!
and remember: don't look down on meateaters no matter what, we are part of the food chain, and most are in denial or just don't know about factory farms...it's really hard for people to give up a huge staple in their diets, and everyone's body needs different things, no one should judge others off of what they eat