Is Christianity logical?

[Truith]

Deppfan Teague

Again, all you're doing is pulling stories from the bible itself, and then discussing it. Where's any vaildity? Any proof of anything? That would be a way to deem it logical, not just the fact that it's there so it's true.

I'm a Christian the Bible is our base for our lives if I can't use the Bible what would you have me use? If your problem is with the Bible itself then please by all means state why you think the Bible is unreliable. do you think it has changed to much from what it was originally. Do you doubt something specific like if paul even existed, please give me something to work with. Everything so far has been too vague. and why is it that no one has offered any proof against me if you wish for me to give proof then shouldn't you produce some as well? Im sorry if I sound rude but this "discusion" is seeming rather one sided.  

[Deppfan]

Ok, you want my opinion? I don't believe a single word of the bible. Never have. It's completely contradictory. Just look at Genesis. In one line, it says that man and woman were created together, then just a few lines later says that God made Eve out of Adam. Contradiction.

What I meant in my earlier statements was, could you use something besides just the bible itself to say why you find it all logical. Maybe reference some real-world, current events and relate them to what the bible says?  

[Truith]

Deppfan Teague

Ok, you want my opinion? I don't believe a single word of the bible. Never have. It's completely contradictory. Just look at Genesis. In one line, it says that man and woman were created together, then just a few lines later says that God made Eve out of Adam. Contradiction.

What I meant in my earlier statements was, could you use something besides just the bible itself to say why you find it all logical. Maybe reference some real-world, current events and relate them to what the bible says?

I don't understand what your talking about I read your coment about Genesis and I can't find any such contradictory statent. Heres what I read. ". . .In the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them . . ."(Genesis 1:27-2 cool . Then a little later: "But for Adam no suitible helper was found. . . the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man." (Genesis 2:20b-22a
It starts by giving a short explenation of creation and then gives a further detialed accout of the creation of man and woman. It only says that they were created in the first acount it never says how they were created.  

[Truith]

Deppfan Teague

Ok, you want my opinion? I don't believe a single word of the bible. Never have. It's completely contradictory. Just look at Genesis. In one line, it says that man and woman were created together, then just a few lines later says that God made Eve out of Adam. Contradiction.

What I meant in my earlier statements was, could you use something besides just the bible itself to say why you find it all logical. Maybe reference some real-world, current events and relate them to what the bible says?

Ok unfortunatly to do that I would have to go into Revelations a part of the Bible I have little understanding of.(very few do and most who claim to know are bluffing.) I don't see how you expect me to explain something that happened two thousand years ago with current events it just doesn't seem probable. . . I could however use prophesies from the old testament to show how years after these prophesies were written down (well more like the earliest dates that we have copies for [you know dead sea scrolls kind of stuff.]) they still were going on.
details on next post.  

[Deppfan]

Truith

Deppfan Teague

Ok, you want my opinion? I don't believe a single word of the bible. Never have. It's completely contradictory. Just look at Genesis. In one line, it says that man and woman were created together, then just a few lines later says that God made Eve out of Adam. Contradiction.

What I meant in my earlier statements was, could you use something besides just the bible itself to say why you find it all logical. Maybe reference some real-world, current events and relate them to what the bible says?

Ok unfortunatly to do that I would have to go into Revelations a part of the Bible I have little understanding of.(very few do and most who claim to know are bluffing.) I don't see how you expect me to explain something that happened two thousand years ago with current events it just doesn't seem probable. . . I could however use prophesies from the old testament to show how years after these prophesies were written down (well more like the earliest dates that we have copies for [you know dead sea scrolls kind of stuff.]) they still were going on.
details on next post.

I mean more of just the basic principles, instead of events in the bible? And of course you can compare things that happened thousands of years ago to today. We still have violence, love, natural disasters, politics.  

[lnvictus]

Stories from the bible, at least in my opinion, can not and SHOULD not be taken for fact, as they were not only written hundreds of years before science and medicine began to explain specific things, but ALSO, they were written hundreds of years AFTER the events they are telling of even took place!

In my opinion, Christianity, and any other theistic religion for that matter should be disregarded completely.
Think about it from a Naturalists point of view. We believe that there is no single being, no almighty creator that bestowed upon us our life.

Every single conflict in the history of humanity has begun simply, if not mostly by the different religious ideals of two radical groups of thinkers.
Ex. WWII, Hitler persecuted THE JEWS for their different beliefs and "physical imperfections" as well as for their dealings in the economies of their specific countries.

Even in the bible and from all that Christians believe, Jesus was killed by Roman Catholics simply because he called himself a Jew. He didn't even worship a different God as the Catholics, he simply worshiped him in a different way, and the Catholics wouldn't have that.

Christians are also some of the least accepting, most unforgiving people in the world.

Evidence:

Christians (at least in most churches) discriminate or otherwise look down upon gays, transvestites, bisexuals, or even just people that are curious sexually.
Christians preach that God gave us free will and yet, they refuse to let a teenage mother abort her unwanted child. Is it REALLY murder if they are early enough along in the pregnancy that the baby even can still be aborted?
Christians (not all, but there are those out there) believe that anyone who does not believe in and worship the same God as they, will be smite and damned to Hell for all eternity! and yet, I don't see anybody on the news that was "smite", EVER. Though in the bible, it does say "Ye shall worship no other God" it does not say "Or I'm going to kill you". And if that was the case, half of the worlds population would be long dead. I would be dead, most of my friends would be dead. A lot of your friends might be dead too, you never really know somebody.

This is just my point of view, feel free to agree with me, or prove me wrong. There is nothing in the bible that can't be proven my science.  

[Truith]

In response to the comment posted by Brett Krueger. I'm sorry but I laughed so hard when I read the part about Roman Chatholics killing Christ. They were Romans who believed in Roman gods. Christianity is based ON Christ and surfaced as a religion AFTER Christs death and resurection. also your right on the acount that many people who call themselves Christians do wrong things. But just calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you one. There are plently of people who call themselves Christians but do not follow the very ideas they claim to uphold. Oh and one more thing God's judgment is not necissarily something that comes on earth, in fact usually it doesn't. Also little known fact Hitler persecuted Christians as well as Jews, gays, mentaly disabled people, and anyone who stood against him.  

[Truith]

Deppfan Teague

Truith

Deppfan Teague

Ok, you want my opinion? I don't believe a single word of the bible. Never have. It's completely contradictory. Just look at Genesis. In one line, it says that man and woman were created together, then just a few lines later says that God made Eve out of Adam. Contradiction.

What I meant in my earlier statements was, could you use something besides just the bible itself to say why you find it all logical. Maybe reference some real-world, current events and relate them to what the bible says?

Ok unfortunatly to do that I would have to go into Revelations a part of the Bible I have little understanding of.(very few do and most who claim to know are bluffing.) I don't see how you expect me to explain something that happened two thousand years ago with current events it just doesn't seem probable. . . I could however use prophesies from the old testament to show how years after these prophesies were written down (well more like the earliest dates that we have copies for [you know dead sea scrolls kind of stuff.]) they still were going on.
details on next post.

I mean more of just the basic principles, instead of events in the bible? And of course you can compare things that happened thousands of years ago to today. We still have violence, love, natural disasters, politics.

Haha, I'm sorry I wasn't really thinking when I put that down. I suppose I could put down some of the things that I've seen and experienced personally. read next slide for more. Also I'm realy happy that you've stuck with me for so long Deppfan Teague everyone else seems to just post there comments and leave, so thanks. It wouldn't be as much fun without you.  

[Truith]

Alright lets see some of the things I've experinced . . . ahhh I know. When I was working at Chrysalis (Christian retreat for teens.) one of the people on the retreat asked if they would pray for his brother who was "on the wrong path" ( im not to sure on the details he was either a heavy drinker or doing drugs.) the leaders of the retreat layed hands on him and prayed for his brother. Moments later they got a call from his mother saying that she had just shared the gospel with his brother. Another one that happened recently was, at the Church i'm currently attending. On the first day I showed up to the late service the pastor told me about my self. He told me I had been dealing with a disease that had been cured, and that I was in a situation were most people would be bitter but I wasn't. The diease was ADHD and it had caused an enormous amount of trouble for me and those around me. I had just recently gotten off of my medication a few months ago and I was doing fine without it. And the situation he spoke of was my mother and fathers divorce Just like he said I didn't hold any bitterness towards either of my parents, not that I don't hate the fact that they had gotten a divorce. Lastly there are several healings I have seen, people who had cancer, in at least one case it was untreatable, were prayed over and they went back to the hospital and all the traces were gone no cancer, or malignant was left.  

[Deppfan]

Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "shared the gospel" so I'll leave that one be.

As far as what the pastor said... easily explained. His words were so vague they could apply to nearly anyone. You put in what you were dealing with, not him.

How about people that have had diseases go away that have never been prayed over ever? It doesn't prove one way or the other, really.  

[Truith]

Deppfan Teague

Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "shared the gospel" so I'll leave that one be.

As far as what the pastor said... easily explained. His words were so vague they could apply to nearly anyone. You put in what you were dealing with, not him.

How about people that have had diseases go away that have never been prayed over ever? It doesn't prove one way or the other, really.

First your right his statement was vague but it was impossibly spot on for the situation I was in at that exact time it was his timing that suprised me, and the bitter thing is rather unusual you have to admit. also sharing the gospel is a vague statement meaning you talked with someone about Christ and his love. And I've never heard of any miraculous healings outside of christianity do you have any examples?  

[Deppfan]

Truith

Deppfan Teague

Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "shared the gospel" so I'll leave that one be.

As far as what the pastor said... easily explained. His words were so vague they could apply to nearly anyone. You put in what you were dealing with, not him.

How about people that have had diseases go away that have never been prayed over ever? It doesn't prove one way or the other, really.

First your right his statement was vague but it was impossibly spot on for the situation I was in at that exact time it was his timing that suprised me, and the bitter thing is rather unusual you have to admit. also sharing the gospel is a vague statement meaning you talked with someone about Christ and his love. And I've never heard of any miraculous healings outside of christianity do you have any examples?

Well, that's the thing... anything like that that happens to people that are not overly religious is assigned to good science and good medicine, and isn't seen as a "miracle."

Then the person who asked for everyone to pray for his brother... he was thinking about it, so probably his mother was too. They had probably had lengthy discussions about him, including right before he left for the retreat. They could have easily thought about it at the same time. It does not necessarily mean that any holy influence took place.  

[Truith]

The situations I'm talking about are situations were the doctors did nothing and still the problem simply disapeared.  

[Truith]

Quote:

alright I still can't find the book but I remember most of the details. Using the science of probability you can figure out the chances of the prophesies in the old testament regarding Jesus coming true. If you were to take just 8 of the over 300 prophesies and calculate the chances of these specific prophesies coming true in a single human being. the number is ( and this is the part im not perfectly clear on but I know I'm close.) 10 to the 50th power. (thats 50 zeros.) the way they explain it in the book is this example. Say you cover all of Texas in silver dollars, two feet deep, pick one to single out and then have a man walk as far as he wants and pick up the exact silver dollar you singled out. AND THATS JUST 8 PROPHESIES. and yet Jesus fulfilled everyone of them regarding his first coming. and the ones regarding his second coming are made beyond obvious that they are going to happen the second time around.

I found my book! first thing I was very wrong about about the ten to the fiftieth power bit thats more like silver dollars to mars, that number will come up later though.  

[Truith]

alright now it's my turn to question your beliefs. The simple cell is considered far more complex than even our most modern machines. The scientist Dr. Francis Crick who co-descovered DNA, examined a single simple cell and found that the chance of that cell evolving in the time the earth had existed, (even if one assumed that the earth was four and a half billion years old). his conclusion was panspermia, the belief that every thing on earth was seaded by an ancient alien race. This is a theory often taught in colleges. the only problem with it is that in the end you have to ask what aliens seeded those aliens and so on and so on.