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The Christian system has so many flaws and inaccuracies, mostly through its blatant contradictions, but I won't really get into that. I respect their beliefs, and ask only that they try not to impose upon me, as an agnostic, or anything else I choose to be.



Something that does not require any sort of faith to believe? Oh how wrong you are...

The faith lies in yourself, above ALL else. Especially in Buddhism and Wicca. Buddhism is a path to enlightenment, it is a discovery of oneself, you have to have faith in what you are searching for, what you are devoting your life to, or you will lose track.

Wicca is the celebration of many different deities, which come to people in many different forms. They came to the Greeks and the Romans, the Celts and the Germanic tribes. These people honored them, and in most cases worshipped them out of fear, or belief they would be smitten if they did not. They had to have faith in themselves, and the magicks behind their traditions and rituals.

From my perspective, these deities have their own personalities, you work with them, and you be cautious of what you are doing. You never have to worship. Above all, Wicca is the celebration of nature, and how things move about the universe. All the previous Sabbats (before Christianity turned them into Sabbaths... lol ) were there to honor different deities, their time of year, and how nature balances itself through cycles.



You have minimized judgement to the most simplest of the many many forms it comes in. Judgement is not merely poking fun. Judgement can in some cases be considered an absolute state of mind. If you pass judgement upon something or someone without mercy or merit, you have created an absolute truth in your mind that this is the way things are. You may not be poking fun, you may simply be closing your mind on a particular subject. In fact...you yourself would have created a truth for your own individuality...much like the idea you shunned earlier...hmm...





That is all I have to say to this portion. The bible was written by men. This God is supposed to be an omnipotent, omniscent, all knowing, all seeing, being of pure good where no evil can touch him, for evil is the absence of God, no? Yet everything that is said and known comes from a text written by the flawed race of humans. The one said to be created in "his" image. This is one reason for the rambunctious contradictions that litter the teachings of the church. A true follower of this faith, I would say, would have to find his/her own path to God, and not through anyone else.

To conclude, I leave with my own opinion. I am a believer in the unknown, there is power out there that is greater than us, there must be, I have seen far too much for there to be otherwise, this I know and will not dispute, however I do not believe a single entity exists to watch over all things, there are many, and each one is given power by those who believe in it. There are many that we don't know about as well, for other worlds that contain life who honor higher beings.

My thoughts, God is real, God exists, God, is ancient as the Romans where his rise to power began through the teachings of men claiming to have seen his son. This God, is Roman in nature, this God is a God of War and Chaos. He has little mercy upon those he sees little use of, he is drunk on power, but has become responsible. He knows the consequences for neglecting his believers as they begin to perish by plague and famine, and he begins to lose some of his power. He fears others into whorshipping him, to gain more, and slanders the Horned God in an attempt to convince others. He thrives to create imbalance where there is balance, for that is the essence of chaos, and without chaos, nothing can proceed.

Imbalance causes nature to react; it wishes to correct and fill. Species go extinct, others mutate, the ground is reshaped, and the air reformed. From these imbalances breed a number of things that cause the universe to change and reshape.

This is what I believe about the nature of things, and the forces of nature. They are much larger than ours, and while there are limited resources out in the expanses of space and the universe, do not underestimate its might.

The thing is with God is he is unknowable because of his vastness, and thus comes to use in different forms, be it the gods and goddesses of ancient Kemet (Egypt), the christian trinity, or however you believe. God is niether good nor evil, but a being of perfect balance and order beyond what we comprehend as order. because our souls are eternal as we were made in his image, he sometimes needs to burn away that which is temporal, to include our mortal vessels. Many times when natural tragedy occurs, it occurs with a reason behind it that most cannot understand until afterwards and with deep reflection. I myself am Kemetic, a former Roman Catholic brought over by the love and feel of the divine by Sekhmet, the goddess of healing and karma. Also, for those who think the Catholic church is without fualt, you might want to look at the past. All religions have suffered when those who are unable to wield thier power responsibly are in charge. For Christians, it was the Spanish Inquisition and the slaughter of many native americans who refused to give up thier beliefs. For the Jews, it was the corruption of thier high priests and thier personal greed that brought Jesus to the cross, not just his fate. For my faith, it was the last pharoahs who allowed greed to become part of thier lives and caused the downfall of the faith. The faith itself in most all religions is of goodness and balance when kept properly and with humility and compassion and with understanding of others, which is what I have been taught as a Kemetic. As a Catholic, I was taught there was only one way and everyone else was going to hell in a handbag, and most others have been ridiculed for thier different beliefs. And yet, did jesus not teach us to love one another, even your enemies? Many have become blindingly hypocritical, but thankfully not all. The wars that have spawned through the centuries, including today, are due mostly because of intollerance to other's religious beliefs. Even the Revolutionary War had religion as one of the main reasons, the freedom to worship how once chooses, yet even afterwards many non-christians suffered in a rather twisted irony, including wiccans and native americans. I say this: We should not be debating weather or not one religion is better than another or denouncing those who follow a different path. Such actions are offensive to the Creator, whomever you believe Him to be. Instead, believe what you will and bring no judgement on others for what they believe, hold no hatred or predjudice in your heart towards them. If the world can learn this much, the wars will start to die out and people will begin to realize what fools they have been all of this time by letting thier anger, intollerance and ignorance lead them down the brutal and senseless paths of killing one another.

I'm neo-pagan, and my best friends are catholic and mormon. we get into a lot of weird discussions on religion--but we don't bash eachother's beliefs.
And i'd also like to point out that those Christians who do call wiccans 'witches' with a negative meaning and call us pagans "raving delusional heretics who are going to burn in hell" are actually disobeying an aspect of thier own own faith--be tolerant of other religions.
Does this strike you as a little hypocritical from a faith that preaches about a god and messiah who is "the embodiment of goodness and lack of sin"?

thats awsome, im the same way, and i dont believe wiccans worship satan on pupose, i think it that there worshiping there god and the devil takes the form of that god. and plus God lets us Kill people becasue he gave us free will, how would you feel if you were bossed around and told what to do or even couldnt control what you do. IT WOULD SUCk, thats why God gave us free will

93.

Wicca was started by Gerald Gardner. Gerald Gardner was a thelemite, who defected and made his own pacifistic version of Thelema, that devoted itself to the metaphysical... and holds a two-sided God (sun up/sun down) and a three-sided Goddess (waxing (the maiden), Full (the Lady), waning (the Crone)) above all else. I guess he was tired of thinking Frater Perdurabo (Aleister Crowley) was a prophet (I am inclined to feel the same).

I am not wiccan or thelemite... but I do tend to agree that to be Wiccan, on must be either a Gardnerian or Alexandrian Wiccan. Or at least the initiators must have originally been from one of those two sects. One can not be Wiccan if they do not worship both the God and goddess... and they must be the Wiccan deities... none of this "Hellenic" wicca et cetera. That is not Wicca... it is a nature-based religion that follows Greek deities.


In the Old testament witchcraft was evil sorcery. In the New testament, it was poisoning. Every religion, including Christianity, has changed from its beginnings... and every religion will be used to the advantage of individuals.

The Crusades were mentioned. That was an example of religion and politics coming together in the worst possible way. High ranking religious officials were fighting for their own goals.

Someone else said that the Qabalah was a fad. I'll start by saying no. The Qabalah is older than you probably think. It is, essentially, Hebrew mysticism. So unless you think that judaism is "just a fad" then I would suggest retracting the statement. I'm not Jewish, or a qabalist, and found myself bothered by that remark.

I'll do a quick recap with a little extra:
Gerald Gardener got most of his ideas from a group he had left (which was a monotheistic group, by the way). He lied about its origins. Most people who think they are Wiccan, really probably aren't (I won't kill you for saying you are, just because you weren't initiated or because you hate Gardner). That just makes it a matter of semantics.

Leave the Crusades alone. It could have happened with any group (and, for that matter, did).

No one is perfect, and most people claiming to follow the Law of Three don't.

The Qabalah is older than Wicca, and many of its origins (no Wicca wasn't the end of some uber old witch-cult... don't lie to yourself). It was no more a fad than Wicca is. If anyone contradicts the statement that the Qabalah was not a fad, they then assert that Wicca is a fad (of which there is ample evidence).

All that is left to be said is: play nice. If you don't like someone, learn to deal with it. If your religion forbids something... then start your own splinter sect... everyone else is doing it...

Wish I had more to say right now...

93 93/93.

Also, on the subject of Mary Magdalene
she was not a prostitute
Mary was a common name in those days and the christian version of her is a combination of many mary's
Magdalene was a title given to a high ranking preistess of the goddess or something(i cant remember, it was something along those lines)

I would have no problem agreeing that wicca was as old as you claim, if there were any proof of it. There isn't. The lady (whose name I don't remember) that published the "history" was found to be a fraud just a few years later.There is no way to properly determine the date of the Rede or of the Laws, because all we have to go on is the word of one or two people... and they are long dead, if I remember right.

So making the assumption that Gardner did not start it all up on his own, then he did make it public... and the only real way into the group, wherein you would learn their Secrets and the Elemental Weapon of Ether, would be through a genuine Coven... not through worshipping Diana or Athena.

The only Wicca that is actual wicca would have to be the people who follow the beliefs of the ACTUAL fertillity cult (yes, you heard me, Wicca is actually a fertillity cult), while worshipping the Lord and Lady of the Isles (you should also know their true names).

EDIT:

I went back and altered your post, so that the quote of me would be less page-stretchy... I tend to write walls of text when I'm "In the Zone," so to speak.