~creation Vs evolution~ your thoughts?

[rex_brandy]

Genesis_verse_1

Ah...my friend God's name has been forgotten by evolution. What Jesus said was true. I ask for signs and I receive signs. This is the fruit of evolution: coincidence. God watches over us at every moment of our life. Life cannot be based on coincidence but the watchful eyes of God.

Why do you think I am the way I am? Why would I go and teach something I once thought was not true? Why would I spend most of my time for God and the work He assigned me to do than focus on myself and do what I want to do?

God is often misunderstood in many ways. He has said "your thinking is not My Thinking, your way is not My Way." Therefore I don't rely on what I think or believe or what others believe I try to think like God which is why I say what I say.

Who are you to say to me that these signs are not real or that He doesn't answer my prayers? One day I got home from school after having many arguments with my peers, I was very stressed and I prayed to God to show me a message from a book called True Life in God (www.tlig.org) that Jesus wrote and I got a message and you can read it on my profile. He actually says "tell them"! Jesus makes himself low so that He may raise us up! You think it is impossible to talk to God, I know that God is listening.

As for obedience I never ask why do you want me to do this. I ask Jesus to to show me things I don't understand. Does the clay ever say to the potter "why are you making me this way? this way would be better.

Also it is true that no one is perfect; however it is not impossible to be. My friends have noticed the drastic change in my attitude and I still have a long way to go.

Dude if you think clay can freakin' speak to a potter then you have something seriously wrong in your head. Just so you know people have said "Why have you made me this way" They didn't say "Why are you making me this way" because they were not evolved enough to have proper thought and they were not able to question their origins. How can you believe Christianity is true when there is more truth to Judaism and Islam and they are much older. They are all generally the same but Christians are self-centered and think they
deserve everything but everyone else does not.  

[rex_brandy]

One more thing Genesis_verse_1 Do you think that two things can happen twice exactly the same in trillions of years?  

[Ultra Sarah]

Evolution isn't about accidents. If you don't understand something, don't bash it. Evolution is about natural selection.

Let's say we have two technologies, steam-powered engines and the other kind we currently use. (I don't actually know much about engines.)

Anyways, the steam-powered ones /were/ technically created, but for the purpose of the example I will say they evolved, because in a way, they did. The guy who invented that didn't just wake up knowing current technology. Scientific information was acquired over a long period of time, and inventions were slowly (or quickly, in bursts, like evolution) invented and improved over time.

The steam-powered engines weren't good enough for what people wanted, but the other kind were(Don't ask me why, I don't know much about engines, as I have already stated). So people stopped making steam-powered machines. They essentially, "died" and the other kind became "more prosperous". So when people wanted to invent a new kind of machine, they didn't used steam-power, they used the other kind, so the other kind of power became more complicated over time because it was superior. It didn't start out as superior necessarily, it became that way because of the environment they wanted to live in. (What they needed the power for.)

I think the bible is inaccurate. rex_brandy looks like he's been explaining that one pretty well, so I won't touch that.  

[rex_brandy]

Ultra Sarah

Evolution isn't about accidents. If you don't understand something, don't bash it. Evolution is about natural selection.

Let's say we have two technologies, steam-powered engines and the other kind we currently use. (I don't actually know much about engines.)

Anyways, the steam-powered ones /were/ technically created, but for the purpose of the example I will say they evolved, because in a way, they did. The guy who invented that didn't just wake up knowing current technology. Scientific information was acquired over a long period of time, and inventions were slowly (or quickly, in bursts, like evolution) invented and improved over time.

The steam-powered engines weren't good enough for what people wanted, but the other kind were(Don't ask me why, I don't know much about engines, as I have already stated). So people stopped making steam-powered machines. They essentially, "died" and the other kind became "more prosperous". So when people wanted to invent a new kind of machine, they didn't used steam-power, they used the other kind, so the other kind of power became more complicated over time because it was superior. It didn't start out as superior necessarily, it became that way because of the environment they wanted to live in. (What they needed the power for.)

I think the bible is inaccurate. rex_brandy looks like he's been explaining that one pretty well, so I won't touch that.

thanks lolz  

[rex_brandy]

The Bible is f***ed beyond all reason. Think about it, if we're all related through Adam and Eve then aren't all marriages inbreeding? So why does the church support it so much and say no to relatives getting married? If two relatives have a child that child has a 90% risk of being disabled in some way, so if everyone is related then why is there no disabilities like that? The disabilities now are because of things proven through science to be natural or through drugs or drinking but the inbreeding one is not like that. It is different from all of the other disabilities but it does not happen in normal everyday life.

-Rex_brandy


Genesis_verse_1 you seem to be getting angry was your priest a little to rough with you last Sunday??
4laugh

-Candun  

[Kachan36]

FREAKAman01

Kachan36

FREAKAman01

Also evolution could not have been true because nothing as complicated
as human life or anything that exists right down to molecules could have
came about by accident and especialy not by a big explosion.

This seems to be a popular argument for creationism. I've heard it many times, and I have to say, I do not understand it at all. To me it is more probable that the universe organized itself the way it did because that was the easiest way to do it than that some supreme being designed it that way. I just can't picture anyone or anything deciding to take atomic particles and assign positive or negative charges to each so that the negative ones will circle the positive ones and form atoms, which will then bond to other atoms using very specific rules to form molecules. Then the molecules will form gases, which will eventually compress into planets circling around huge balls of energy called stars. One planet will be just the right distance from its star to support the molecules that form water. Then other molecules can form proteins that will build all kinds of plant and animal tissues, and eventually organize into a creature with a brain. The brain will tell all the creature's other tissues what to do and it will get bigger and bigger until it can actually question its own existence. Once these creatures can question their origins, they will worship me, but only if they want to, because their brains also give them the ability to be creative, solve problems and make decisions and judgments for themselves.

Somehow, it is more believable to me that we just evolved this way and created the story of creation because our brains got big enough and complex enough to want to know where we came from, so we tried to come up with an explanation before we were able to discover the truth. To me, the complexity of the universe points more toward evolution than toward a creator.

Well if you put aside the aspect for a bit that we could have only been
created over a huge amount of time, it makes a bit more sense I think.
The chances of such a thing happening by itself are so high that they
are virtually impossible.
We cannot possibly measure the chances of our existence occuring because we cannot measure the universe or its processes. We have no idea if ours is the only instance of life in the universe, or if ours is even the only universe. The chances of there being some random supreme being who conveniently created us and who conveniently conforms to everything we want to believe may be just as high

I believe that man was created not over a huge period of time
but in an instant. the Bible says God made us from the dust of the earth.
The Bible is a book written by humans. No matter how many people believe in it, no matter how many other manmade documents confirm its truth, it is still created by humans and therefore biased by human thought, which is not necessarily correct or true.

if you put into motion the idea that there is a being, who knows all,
and is just, and righteous above everyone else, who created the idea of
math and science and thought, it is more probable and even I would think
more acceptable by man that we were created instead of being an accident.
Of course it is more acceptable to man. Man is arrogant and self-centered. We want to believe we were created for a purpose because we want to believe that we are special. That does not mean we are using correct logic, and it does not make it true. Also, this argument presupposes the existence of a creator; it does not prove the existence of one.

also if you look at anything really closely, you'll will find it has a purpose.
plants, animals, insects, bacteria, each one having tasks to complete.
If we happened by chance, why would we still be here today?
our lives would have no purpose, there would be no absolutes
(which there are) why not murder? why not rape? why not destroy?
evolution is just another theory made up by man because humans don't
like having to pay for their actions.
Why wouldn't we still be here? What is our purpose, then, since you seem to think we have one? These absolutes you speak of are ideas created by humans. Murder, rape and destruction occur in the animal world. Only humans have words for them and only humans give them negative connotations because our brains are more evolved. Evolution is a theory, yes, but so is creationism. Humans made up a supreme being so they could blame someone higher up for their mistakes. It's not our fault we are sinners, it is the way we were created. It's not our job to judge eachother and keep order amongst ourselves, only God can judge us. Creationism can also be an excuse for humans who don't like having to pay for their actions.

I don't think God's intention for our creation was just so he could have
a nice little band of followers.
I don't think God even exists. That does not make it true.

And in your last paragraph, can't the same thing be argued against
evolution?
I suppose it could. But that just means that the evolution theory may not be correct, either. Perhaps there is another explanation for how we got here that we haven't discovered, or even thought of, yet.

The nice thing about beliefs is that it is always easy to find evidence to support them. It is especially easy to say something is true just because we believe it to be so. This is false logic. Reality is much more complicated, and it is that complicated nature of reality that makes it easier for me to think that we occured as a result of natural evolution, not as a result of a supreme being's whim.  

[FF Turk_Panto]

Genesis_verse_1

Ah...my friend God's name has been forgotten by evolution. What Jesus said was true. I ask for signs and I receive signs. This is the fruit of evolution: coincidence. God watches over us at every moment of our life. Life cannot be based on coincidence but the watchful eyes of God.

Why do you think I am the way I am? Why would I go and teach something I once thought was not true? Why would I spend most of my time for God and the work He assigned me to do than focus on myself and do what I want to do?

God is often misunderstood in many ways. He has said "your thinking is not My Thinking, your way is not My Way." Therefore I don't rely on what I think or believe or what others believe I try to think like God which is why I say what I say.

Who are you to say to me that these signs are not real or that He doesn't answer my prayers? One day I got home from school after having many arguments with my peers, I was very stressed and I prayed to God to show me a message from a book called True Life in God (www.tlig.org) that Jesus wrote and I got a message and you can read it on my profile. He actually says "tell them"! Jesus makes himself low so that He may raise us up! You think it is impossible to talk to God, I know that God is listening.

As for obedience I never ask why do you want me to do this. I ask Jesus to to show me things I don't understand. Does the clay ever say to the potter "why are you making me this way? this way would be better.

Also it is true that no one is perfect; however it is not impossible to be. My friends have noticed the drastic change in my attitude and I still have a long way to go.

I'm going to first off say that i respect all views of religion and their opinions and in turn I hope you respect my beliefs as I do of yours and everyone else's on this forum.

Now here is a theory. Evolution is believed that a puddle with chemical theory in it caused a certain reaction to create life, but this is skeptical in my head. What i am also skeptical about too is God himself. Evolution is mysterious, always will be, new updates of it will happen and for the truth of the evolution theory to come out is like a needle in a hey stack in which evolution can not be fully proven nor can it be fully false. I feel as though genetics is what can help scientists today discover how we got here. They need however something in which can date it to the first days when man was developing as well as other organisms on this planet. Creation by God for mankind and this world is to me something way off. Man has created the bible once previously said in this forum and in those times these writers had what is called an inspiration or a vision. The visions were described as a headache like state in which felt feverish and caused them to see visions. First off Plague and disease was around that time the bible was made, this vision like feeling could merely by the side affects or the causes to which makes the writers of the Bible record them down in order to remember them. Hence like recording your dreams in a journal or something. Second "God" folks was to be feared in those times and I feel as though it is still pressured by many today (however not all cause i do know some actual good Christians out there rather than those who think they know all when they are simply arrogant and unwise of what is right and what is wrong). I won't go on further with that explanation, but to continue, there was a great flood in the Red Sea, but only covered that area (you can see recordings of this in artwork too). Remember too that natural effects of nature can evolve this world and species can evolve (been proven) in order to survive (look up Darwin's Theory for this explanation). Floods, erosion, earthquakes, mudslides, etc. etc. can shape and mold this planet as if it was clay in the hands of the craftsman. Look up the big bang theory folks too that can explain alot and study Super Novas when in comes to creation of the earth. Those novas can do a great deal and if you haven't heard that not too long ago two galaxies just became one recently by a Nova. It makes you wonder folks. For us humans, were a mystery. Apes can rightfully suggest we started from them, but to this day it is still complained about. Thats all i have to say.  

[shadow_humper]

I have but one thing to say about this; Evolutionary Creatizum. This theory combines the two to describe how a higher being created the start of life and governed it whilst it grew on it's own. Evolution and all that happened because of a higher being Creating the heavens and Earth and Life itself. Now I studdy Celtic Druidry, but I still believe in this theory.  

[azrael the reaper_95210]

demon coal

I have but one thing to say about this; Evolutionary Creatizum. This theory combines the two to describe how a higher being created the start of life and governed it whilst it grew on it's own. Evolution and all that happened because of a higher being Creating the heavens and Earth and Life itself. Now I studdy Celtic Druidry, but I still believe in this theory.

yup, sounds about right...... God began it all, then used evolution as a basis by which things can grow and adapt as time went on  

[FF Turk_Panto]

The only thing I would say to your opinions is how do we know God exists in this world. What proof do we have of his existence. Maybe there is a higher being governing us, but at the same time maybe we are the being in which we follow our morals and express it to an extent that someone or something is controlling us even though we are the ones controlling ourselves. Even I do not have proof to say if a God is there or not, but what proof, I ask everyone else here, do they have that a higher being is in the presence of the heavens? The bible is human made remember yet this may not be enough to say that God's existence is not around. So how do we suggest God is here. Think on that question I made in bold font everyone, it is not a question to rid of your beliefs for that is not my way, but let it be to ponder upon.  

[Kachan36]

FREAKAman01

Also, evidence has been found that carbon dating does not work for
dating anything back any further than a few thousand years.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-c14-disprove-the-bible

I'm sorry, but this statement has been bothering me. It is true that radiocarbon dating is only accurate to about 50,000 years ago. That's why scientists now use a process called Potassium/Argon dating to date sites and remains older than 50,000 years. Potassium 40 has a much longer half-life than Carbon 14 has. Argon 40 is one of the byproducts of Potassium 40's decay. By calculating the ratio between Potassium 40 and Argon 40, scientists can measure much older dates much more accurately than they can with Carbon 14 dating. I cannot recall the exact number, but it is definitely in the tens of millions of years range.  

[SuperiorDenizenOfTheHouse]

FREAKAman01

And just for the record, it is not true that nobody can back their beliefs
with real evidence. The Bible is backed by hundreds of ancient documents
and accounts that retell the same stories that the Bible tells.

For example almost all major empires or nations that have existed according
to what the Bible says existed after the Flood one way or another have
ancient legends weather altered or not of a great flood that covered all the
earth. Some of these stories even tell of how only one family survived
via large boat and that lines up with the Bible.

Also, evidence has been found that carbon dating does not work for
dating anything back any further than a few thousand years.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-c14-disprove-the-bible

AND it does not take millions of years for coal and oil to form naturally
because scientists have done so in a much shorter amount of time.

And how could the grand canyon have been made but by a sudden
movement in the earths plates and huge amounts of water?

Also, every evolutionary stage of man
that scientists think are relevent such as the pilt down man and
neanderthal man have been hoaxes fabricated by people.
http://www.nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.html

Also evolution could not have been true because nothing as complicated
as human life or anything that exists right down to molecules could have
came about by accident and especialy not by a big explosion.

please feel free to express your views.

Express my views? Alright, thats a load of crap.
Fact:
there is not enough water on earth to flood it. There is a story from an ancient culture of a merchant and his family survive for a week on a boat(a river flooded and the boat was swept away), (this predates the bible by the way) and this is believed to be the root of the story of Noah.
The scientists that you refer to have done those things in a short period of time because we have the technology to do so, we can artificially create the conditions to create these things. It also takes so much money and power to do so that it is inconcievable that anyone created the huge deposits around the world.
as for the grand canyon I dont have that much knowledge about it so I wont say anything.
The neanderhal man and pilt down man are not hoaxes, there are actual skeletons of these specimen that have been examined and studied, there is no way to falsely create a skeleton so realistic as to fool so many people. stare
Lastly, do you know how big the univere is? the chances of life and evolution are incredibly low, true, but the amount of planets in the universe is so exremely high it is not that hard to believe that life is possible. The big bang is only a theory, not a science and there is no proof that the creation of the universe happened that way or the biblical way.
To sum up, I thought your post was very biased, and I had to set some things straight. I am sorry if you dislike my views, I am not saying that some form of higher being does not exist but it seems unlikely to me. I believe it more likely that humans created god to give their existance meaning, and they created him in their image so that they could elevate themselves above other creatures.  

[mariez141]

well, to be honest, in my opinion, both creation and evolution are pieces of crap.
it's my belief that whether or not there is a higher power or if there is some scientific origin, humans are never gonna know what it is.
think of it this way- religion (note that i mean style of worship, not the existence of a higher power itself) and science are both man made
here's an analogy; no matter how hard you tried, you could never get a dog to comprehend the human concept of physics. their brains just aren't wired that way. and while we are more intelligent than them, are we arrogant enough to say that we are the pinnacle of knowledge?
there must be something(s) that we will never be able to understand, so why bother?
if there is a higher power (and it's just as possible that there's more than one) then there is, but what're the chances that we'll find out what exactly they are?
and if we came from some form of science, there are many principles that are very much out of our reach. for all we know, the sciences we're learning right now, while relative to the earth bound, could be complete garbage in the grand scheme of things.
we're wasting our time trying to figure out life's mysteries, but society is the way it is, so the debate will continue  

[FF Turk_Panto]

Twilight_Lives_On

well, to be honest, in my opinion, both creation and evolution are pieces of crap.
it's my belief that whether or not there is a higher power or if there is some scientific origin, humans are never gonna know what it is.
think of it this way- religion (note that i mean style of worship, not the existence of a higher power itself) and science are both man made
here's an analogy; no matter how hard you tried, you could never get a dog to comprehend the human concept of physics. their brains just aren't wired that way. and while we are more intelligent than them, are we arrogant enough to say that we are the pinnacle of knowledge?
there must be something(s) that we will never be able to understand, so why bother?
if there is a higher power (and it's just as possible that there's more than one) then there is, but what're the chances that we'll find out what exactly they are?
and if we came from some form of science, there are many principles that are very much out of our reach. for all we know, the sciences we're learning right now, while relative to the earth bound, could be complete garbage in the grand scheme of things.
we're wasting our time trying to figure out life's mysteries, but society is the way it is, so the debate will continue

*applauds* you and I are alike in views, very well said  

[Kachan36]

Twilight_Lives_On

well, to be honest, in my opinion, both creation and evolution are pieces of crap.
it's my belief that whether or not there is a higher power or if there is some scientific origin, humans are never gonna know what it is.
think of it this way- religion (note that i mean style of worship, not the existence of a higher power itself) and science are both man made
here's an analogy; no matter how hard you tried, you could never get a dog to comprehend the human concept of physics. their brains just aren't wired that way. and while we are more intelligent than them, are we arrogant enough to say that we are the pinnacle of knowledge?
there must be something(s) that we will never be able to understand, so why bother?
if there is a higher power (and it's just as possible that there's more than one) then there is, but what're the chances that we'll find out what exactly they are?
and if we came from some form of science, there are many principles that are very much out of our reach. for all we know, the sciences we're learning right now, while relative to the earth bound, could be complete garbage in the grand scheme of things.
we're wasting our time trying to figure out life's mysteries, but society is the way it is, so the debate will continue

You're right, there probably are things we can never understand. Does that mean we should just stop trying to understand things? 600 years ago, everyone understood the world to be flat. Should they have just gone on believing that and never discovered the truth? 300 years ago, everyone thought that sickness came from bad air or demons. Should they have stopped trying to figure out what germs are and how to stop them? Maybe we can't know how we got here, but we also can't know what we can or cannot understand until we try. Trying to learn and understand new things can never be a waste of time. I'm sorry, but that sounds like an extremely close minded philosophy for life.