The nature of a perfect "God"

[bfdhshsgvjggh]

beaulolais

the greeks invented this idea of a "perfect" god, the unmoved mover, without parts or passions, like a perfect marble sphere that cant be affected by any force or influence.

the bible's god is not like that.

YHWH is active, repents (!) , gets angry, jealous, sad, enjoys the smell of good things, is part of things.

Jesus wept.

and partied, according to his critics.

so they were not "perfect".

not dull predictable quantifiable mathematical certainties.

more like us, in other words.

Not to be a stick in the mud but the Greek gods were not perfect either. In fact a lot of members of the old pantheons were not perfect in any way. A lot of them made cripplingly stupid mistakes. Zeus was a flirt who shagged every woman that breathed, Aphrodite was made easily jealous, Hades was a romantic who let his emotions get in the way of the natural order These people were double-sided, like human beings. They had these amazing qualities about them but they made mistakes. That was the appeal behind them in the first place: they could ******** up.

And a lot of monotheists don't like to admit that their God is also imperfect in some respects. Especially all you Yankees that are south of me. They believe he's perfect, and that he has a plan for all of us. These people obviously didn't read the part where God asked Abraham to barbeque his kids in the Old Testament. He held one hell of a grudge for a long time after he threw out Adam and Eve. How is that perfect?  

[The God Filicide]

i have a question if man was created from the reflection of god then why arent we perfect if god is perfect?
EDIT: ive discovered this goes along with the above post  

[bfdhshsgvjggh]

Giselle C. Blanchard

i have a question if man was created from the reflection of god then why arent we perfect if god is perfect?
EDIT: ive discovered this goes along with the above post

That all depends on who you ask.

You use the term "reflection of God." That implies we were created as an opposite to him/her/it. In other words, a God (or The, whatever you prefer) that is perfect creates beings that are not. Just wanted to address that before going further. Don't mind me. Lululu.

*ahem* Now.

Many monotheists argue we were created in the image of God, and that alone is what makes us perfect. Because biologically we're incredibly adaptable to a variety of climates and conditions save the extremities (plz dont jump in volcanos k thnx). Also because of our incredible mental prowess. Dogs can't do math. Birds can't philosophize. You can't ask a fish for directions. A fish can't give you directions. Hence, monotheists believe we are Perfect.

Polytheism preaches the idea that the Gods were not perfect and therefore neither was humankind. Many polytheists however say we are in the image of the Gods, down to the last fault. Many Gods of polytheism could make mistakes (as I posted before), were not omnipotent (hence why there were so damn many of them) and more importantly: could die. Even certain sects of Buddhism (technically polytheistic) state that angels could decay. Because many polytheists believe the Gods were human in appearance, however, this gave them the motivation to go out and boast their superiority over the other life forms. Ergo, polytheists believe we are not perfect, merely superior.

Nature worshippers claim there is a natural order, and that humans are not entirely perfect but do have a role in some way. Many state that perfection and imperfection is not important, and that maintaining the planet so that all things could live in harmony is. As such nature worshippers don't really care about perfection.

Anti-Faiths such as Atheism and Agnosticism, as you might imagine, say the complete opposite of all of these. By either claiming there is no God or that they don't really know, they state that the Universe is chaotic and ever-changing. This means that they don't believe a perfect being could exist in such an entropic universe because nothing in life is technically eternal save maybe time itself. And even that is a matter of debate among some crazy Temporal Physicists who don't have anything better to do on a Friday night. As such, Anti-Faiths state nothing is perfect or superior.

Either way it's a matter of opinion.

Find your own answers, though. Make peace with the Universe in your own way.

Don't listen to me, I use the internet.  

[bfdhshsgvjggh]

I see I've killed the thread. XP  

[Mimishi ikiharu]

okay I have read a little bit of this thread and well you got my interest. now as for perfection. perfection was thought up by a human mind hence makeing it flawed. as for god if god was so great why would we need books and other people tell us about god, or goddess.  

[Mimishi ikiharu]

snd I get the one time every one is offline just my luck wait the bring a whole new debate oh well..  

[[Kegan]]

Mimishi ikiharu

okay I have read a little bit of this thread and well you got my interest. now as for perfection. perfection was thought up by a human mind hence makeing it flawed. as for god if god was so great why would we need books and other people tell us about god, or goddess.

No, perfection is something seen, by the human but not comprehended.a human will neevr see the whole, and is incaplable. the whole is the only perfection, thus God, could only be everything. Such ideas of a god with ideals is a perverted(made for the worse, infected, warped, or tainted.)

I do not base my ideas of perfection off first hand accounts but by the meaning of the word, no part is perfect if it isn't complete, so defining a part.  

[kuro sendo]

i believe there cant be a perfect "god" cause if you think the way i do god doesnt exist  

[T h e s t e p H]

HereThereAndBackAgain

Khalida Nyoka

The only perfection is the flawless, endless, procession of time. We believe that time slows as the speed of light is approached.

As engineer-of-doom said to me when she and I were, in real life, standing inside a church in Malibu at night, waiting for Z, she said that she always thought it was interesting in the bible when God said "let there be light" because both sound and light are Vibrations.

So as light speed is approached, all the different vibrating frquencies should come closer to a single uniform one, should they not?

Does that then mean that God would be in the light? God is Time?

Maybe a perfect ‘God’ would be something that simply exists, creating and destroying not as it sees fit, but as is necessary in the endless flow of life and time?

Khalida Nyoka - You win the “Most Interesting Post I’ve Read All Year Award”, and I don’t mean that sarcastically.

HereThereAndBackAgain - You could be right. Don’t get me wrong, I disagree with you, but you have point.

Call me Christian, but I do believe that God created the universe. You know the cliché, “God spoke and BANG it happened.” Because I believe God created the universe, I believe God is unimaginably powerful. Because I believe that God is powerful beyond human comprehension, I’m led to believe that He isn’t simpler than us in purpose and reason. The idea that God is simply an apathetic facilitator of time just doesn’t seem to balance out with the [for lack of a better word] awesomeness of power that He has. It seems that a being with more power than us, more experience than us, and [assumingly] more intelligent than us would also be a lot more complex.
[Side note - Yes, I refer to God as a “he”. Honestly, I think God is without gender, but I made my pronoun decision because “it” seems rude, and “he” is shorter than “she” and higher in the alphabet.]

I do think that God is perfect. I believe God is the ultimate embodiment of goodness. I believe that the human obsession with perfection is part of our attempt to understand and be closer to God. I believe that it is impossible to understand God, but the search helps us to define our own beliefs. I believe that search is a necessary part of every person’s development.

I can’t say absolutely what I believe about the imperfection of the universe, nature, life, and us in general, and I can’t say why we’re here. But, if I had to guess, I’d say we’re here to experience life. Honestly, I think life is the meaning of life. I can only assume that this imperfect world has something different to experience than a paradise where only goodness lives. I know I’m getting dangerously close to saying that we exist to suffer just for the hell of it, but that isn’t what I mean, I promise. Because we feel negative emotions I think we’re opened up to fully experience different positive ones. Hope comes from sorrow. Courage comes in the face of danger. Laughing with hindsight at something stupid you did in high school that embarrassed the hell out of you back then. There are positive, good, emotions that are only experienced when we’ve had a negative, bad, emotion before it. Our feelings, experiences, and choices define who we are-define our souls-and makes us who we are.

I know this all sounds convoluted, but it’s all part of my unwritten faith. It’s constantly changing and synthesizing with other ideas and beliefs, so it is hard to define. And honestly, was faith ever uncomplicated?  

[T h e s t e p H]

No one wants to contradict me? Really?
Damn, I hate it when people don't at least try a rebuttle.  

[420FienD420]

What are we?
Are we human? Simply because we say we are does not make it so, human attitudes are what make us 'human,' and those who are different are labelled as 'unhuman,' almost as if the human cannot comprehend the entirety of its behavior, along with its faults. Anything that scares the human is not real, is not here, is not anything, and therefore, the human tries to get rid of it, the examples are everywhere, from the Salem witch trials, to the present day executions of the 'criminals' that 'plauge the world'. Good and bad are similar. Truly the human has made the concepts itself, because no one told them that it was so, no one told them that good was treating people fairly and kindly, and always being polite. Every human wishes to be 'good' because it is not something in their nature, it is not something that it can have, so it wishes desperately to own it, just like all of the things that it is denied. And if you are saying to yourself, "of course someone told the human that good was good and bad was bad, God did," then I challenge you. Who made the concept of God? The humans saw their own weakness, so they made a person or entity that would never truly exist, so it could have no faults, no pain, no distrust, and nothing that would remind the human of its own imperfections. Now if you say "this person thinks of themselves as more then human," I challenge you once again. I do not think I am any more or any less then the human, I just am. I am here, and I see the imperfections of the world around me, and in me, but I do not think of myself as any more then the human. I am a silent observer. Or I was. Until I realized that many do not see the human as I do. I do not expect you to embrace my theories, but I hope you will not totally dismiss them. They are what I have noted through my years of being human, through witnesses the strengths and weaknesses firsthand, and questioning my way of life. I do wish for a reprive from the stupid repitition of each pointless day, doing exactly what I am told to "if I'm ever to survive in this world" but I long for a way that I can do what I wish, and observe the humans, as I do now, but separate from the feelings that plaugue them, make them weak, but also being a part of them. If you still follow my train of thought, I wish to leave you something to think about, if humans make their own world, and we are part of the humans, why can't we make ours? The answer is in your mind, in your heart, in everything you see, everything you breathe. You can. But no one ever will. And you know why? Because they'll never accept the fact that they can. Which is why I had to write this.  

[420FienD420]

The above post was something that I wrote in grade nine. I just copied and pasted but I just realised that only some of it had relevence. Oh well.  

[[Kegan]]

also you have one huge paragraph... ^^;  

[Abreena]

Ever-Infamous Kojiro-san

beaulolais

the greeks invented this idea of a "perfect" god, the unmoved mover, without parts or passions, like a perfect marble sphere that cant be affected by any force or influence.

the bible's god is not like that.

YHWH is active, repents (!) , gets angry, jealous, sad, enjoys the smell of good things, is part of things.

Jesus wept.

and partied, according to his critics.

so they were not "perfect".

not dull predictable quantifiable mathematical certainties.

more like us, in other words.

Not to be a stick in the mud but the Greek gods were not perfect either. In fact a lot of members of the old pantheons were not perfect in any way. A lot of them made cripplingly stupid mistakes. Zeus was a flirt who shagged every woman that breathed, Aphrodite was made easily jealous, Hades was a romantic who let his emotions get in the way of the natural order These people were double-sided, like human beings. They had these amazing qualities about them but they made mistakes. That was the appeal behind them in the first place: they could ******** up.

And a lot of monotheists don't like to admit that their God is also imperfect in some respects. Especially all you Yankees that are south of me. They believe he's perfect, and that he has a plan for all of us. These people obviously didn't read the part where God asked Abraham to barbeque his kids in the Old Testament. He held one hell of a grudge for a long time after he threw out Adam and Eve. How is that perfect?

Genesis 22 was a test for Abraham to prove his loyalty and commitment to God. He never intended for the boy, Issac, to die. If you look at the previous scripture, Abraham was God's "servant" by a covanent. What master does not test? What teacher, father, mother does not test? It was a lesson in obedience for everyone. God actually blessed Abraham and Issac for Abraham's faith.

Adam and Eve disobeyed God. If you were in paradise, would you break the one and only rule? It was a simple task to not eat from one tree, thought to be the apple tree, but they broke the rule. Did you ever do something in high school or college that had gigantic reprecussions? If you palgerize in college you get kicked out and you're not allowed into any University. That simple act can ruin a person's future. The simple act of eating that fruit and breaking God's law damned the rest of humanity. Yet God was merciful and gave them clothing.

God gave humans free will. We can choose to know that He is there or ignore Him. It is humanity that is imperfect. An imperfect God would have let humanity rot, yet He sent Jesus so that we can redeam ourselves and allow us back into paradise.  

[T h e s t e p H]

420FienD420

Abreena

Genesis 22 was a test for Abraham to prove his loyalty and commitment to God. He never intended for the boy, Issac, to die. If you look at the previous scripture, Abraham was God's "servant" by a covanent. What master does not test?

If you still follow my train of thought, I wish to leave you something to think about, if humans make their own world, and we are part of the humans, why can't we make ours?

420FienD420 - Forgive me, but I'm not sure what it is you want to make "ours". That was a long paragraph, and I did lose your train of thought.

Abreena - Thank you for explaining that. That is the best explaination and analogy I've ever come across to explain that "test". However, I just can't imagine that my God, the emodiment of all that is good, loving, and holy would intentionally cause so much grief and turmoil inside a faithful servant's heart.

I understand that God wasn't testing Abraham to see what he'd do-God already knew the depths of Abraham's loyalty-God wanted Abraham to know how loyal he was, too. But, in my heart, there is no path to goodness through deceit. That is a horrible story, and everytime I think about it I just imagine some drunken senior frat boy making a pledge run over his own dog-but at the last second saying "DUDE! Wait up! I was just messin' with ya! You were really gonna do it?! Damn, I can't believe you fell for that! But you are SO in!"

I believe God only acts for good through good means. That is why He is perfect in my beliefs.

And as for Adam and Eve-I don't believe the world was created 6,000 years ago, or that all of humanity began with two people, but even if I did I'd still have a hard time believing that God would purposely put temptation in our way. If God didn't want humans to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, then why plant it there in the first place?