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 Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:23 am
Did you know that Constantine (ruler of Constantinople) was a Wiccan and on his death bed he was forcefully baptized. Just so the Christian community could say he was a Christian.
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:39 pm
Gluttony3280 Did you know that Constantine (ruler of Constantinople) was a Wiccan and on his death bed he was forcefully baptized. Just so the Christian community could say he was a Christian. Quote: Constantine is perhaps best known for being the first Christian Roman Emperor. His reign was a turning point for the Christian Church. In 313 Constantine announced toleration of Christianity in the Edict of Milan, which removed penalties for professing Christianity (under which many had been martyred in previous persecutions of Christians) and returned confiscated Church property. Though a similar edict had been issued in 311 by Galerius, then senior emperor of the Tetrarchy,[7] Constantine's lengthy rule, conversion, and patronage of the Church redefined the status of Christianity in the empire.
Constantine the Great, mosaic in Hagia Sophia, Constantinople, c. 1000.
Scholars debate whether Constantine adopted his mother St. Helena's Christianity in his youth, or whether he adopted it gradually over the course of his life.[8] Constantine was over 40 when he finally declared himself a Christian.[9] Writing to Christians, Constantine made clear that he owed his successes to the protection of the Christian High God alone.[10] Throughout his rule, Constantine supported the Church financially, built various basilicas, granted privileges (e.g. exemption from certain taxes) to clergy, promoted Christians to high ranking offices, and returned property confiscated during the Great Persecution of Diocletian.[11] His most famous building projects include the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and Old Saint Peter's Basilica.
The reign of Constantine established a precedent for the position of the Christian Emperor in the Church; Constantine considered himself responsible to God for the spiritual health of his subjects, and thus he had a duty to maintain orthodoxy.[12] For Constantine, the emperor did not decide doctrine - that was the responsibility of the bishops - rather his role was to enforce doctrine, root out heresy, and uphold ecclesiastical unity.[13] The emperor ensured that God was properly worshipped in his empire; what proper worship consisted of was for the Church to determine.[14]
In 316, Constantine acted as a judge in a North African dispute and condemned the heresy of Donatism.[3] More significantly, in 325 he summoned the First Council of Nicaea, effectively the first Ecumenical Council (unless the Council of Jerusalem is so classified), which condemned Arianism and formulated the Trinity as it is known today. The Council of Nicea traditionally marks the end of the early Christian era.[citation needed]
Another view on Constantine's conversion to Christianity was of convenience. In Constantine's time it is estimated that about ten percent of Rome's population were Christian with an even more significant proportion of the military following Christ.
It is interesting to note that Constantine followed a common practice of the era and was not baptized until his deathbed. Taken from: Constanine IRemember, when Constantine was around, the Christians were a minority with no power... and it was Constantine who enacted fair treatment for them. They COULD NOT have forced a high ranking Roman Official to do anything he did not want to.
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Khalida Nyoka Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:16 pm
it's sad that people of different religions cannot just get along, isn't it? But for some strange reason there is always that one person from every group to mess it all up because they are not open-minded. I myself know what you're talking about because I'm Wiccan, and after a few years I am getting tired of people damning me to hell and getting hit with bibles. xd but it's not the religion that makes the person really is it? it's the person who makes the religion. I could speak volumes on the church, but it doesn't solve anything. They are the ones missing out on leading a full happy life because they are to narrow-minded, and not specifically Christians, but a lot of people. I have a lot of Christian friends surprisingly, and they are not at all what I thought they would be. does that make me a bad person? sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:03 pm
KuramaFox007Yaoi it's sad that people of different religions cannot just get along, isn't it? But for some strange reason there is always that one person from every group to mess it all up because they are not open-minded. I myself know what you're talking about because I'm Wiccan, and after a few years I am getting tired of people damning me to hell and getting hit with bibles. xd but it's not the religion that makes the person really is it? it's the person who makes the religion. I could speak volumes on the church, but it doesn't solve anything. They are the ones missing out on leading a full happy life because they are to narrow-minded, and not specifically Christians, but a lot of people. I have a lot of Christian friends surprisingly, and they are not at all what I thought they would be. does that make me a bad person? sweatdrop This may seem odd with what I've been doing this whole thread, but I have no disagreement with what you've said. I wouldn't say it makes youy a bad person. It makes you a person like the rest of us. The way you live does tend to get negative responses from Christians, and as such you expect Christians to treat you poorly. I'd be more surprised if you had said you expected them to greet you with cake (if you catch my meaning).
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Khalida Nyoka Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:31 pm
brad175 One question. If I am standing on top of a 10 story building and I say to myself, "There is no gravity," will I fall? Religions or philosophys such as Wicca and Buddhisim believe that there are no absolutes, that truth can found for the individual. Well, I don't believe that. Infact, I think that is quite idiotic, something that you don't need any kind of faith to believe. Witchcraft IS mentioned in the Bible. It is mentioned as a wicked sin. Now, before you accuse me of "passing judgement," you first need to understand what judgement is. Judgement: making fun, putting down, ridiculing, scoffing Whoever you are, I accept you. I shall hate even the clothing stained by the corrupted flesh, in a manner of speaking, but I shall show only love towards you. However, I do not and will not ever accept this philosophy called Wicca. How can I? By my beliefs as a follower of Christ, there IS but one path to God. Do you want proof? Jesus said it himself: John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." By the way, according to the Bible, worshiping any other false god is worship of Satan. That's your misconception there. Pm me to dispute any time about anything relating to God. Bring to me your "contradictions" and such and I shall tackle them all. Pride? No. Faith, for God is with me. wiccans do not worship the devil!!!!! infact satinists do!!! and you are most sertinly pasing jugement!!! and besides all peoples sin so even though we do one thing and you do another we would both be doing the exact same thing in the eyes of god so eat that!!
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:51 pm
lovelylilflower2 Kabol_Schezar The Christian system has so many flaws and inaccuracies, mostly through its blatant contradictions, but I won't really get into that. I respect their beliefs, and ask only that they try not to impose upon me, as an agnostic, or anything else I choose to be. brad175 One question. If I am standing on top of a 10 story building and I say to myself, "There is no gravity," will I fall? Religions or philosophys such as Wicca and Buddhisim believe that there are no absolutes, that truth can found for the individual. Well, I don't believe that. Infact, I think that is quite idiotic, something that you don't need any kind of faith to believe. Something that does not require any sort of faith to believe? Oh how wrong you are... The faith lies in yourself, above ALL else. Especially in Buddhism and Wicca. Buddhism is a path to enlightenment, it is a discovery of oneself, you have to have faith in what you are searching for, what you are devoting your life to, or you will lose track. Wicca is the celebration of many different deities, which come to people in many different forms. They came to the Greeks and the Romans, the Celts and the Germanic tribes. These people honored them, and in most cases worshipped them out of fear, or belief they would be smitten if they did not. They had to have faith in themselves, and the magicks behind their traditions and rituals. From my perspective, these deities have their own personalities, you work with them, and you be cautious of what you are doing. You never have to worship. Above all, Wicca is the celebration of nature, and how things move about the universe. All the previous Sabbats (before Christianity turned them into Sabbaths... lol ) were there to honor different deities, their time of year, and how nature balances itself through cycles. brad175 Witchcraft IS mentioned in the Bible. It is mentioned as a wicked sin. Now, before you accuse me of "passing judgement," you first need to understand what judgement is. Judgement: making fun, putting down, ridiculing, scoffing Whoever you are, I accept you. I shall hate even the clothing stained by the corrupted flesh, in a manner of speaking, but I shall show only love towards you. You have minimized judgement to the most simplest of the many many forms it comes in. Judgement is not merely poking fun. Judgement can in some cases be considered an absolute state of mind. If you pass judgement upon something or someone without mercy or merit, you have created an absolute truth in your mind that this is the way things are. You may not be poking fun, you may simply be closing your mind on a particular subject. In fact...you yourself would have created a truth for your own individuality...much like the idea you shunned earlier...hmm... brad175 However, I do not and will not ever accept this philosophy called Wicca. How can I? By my beliefs as a follower of Christ, there IS but one path to God. Do you want proof? Jesus said it himself: John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." By the way, according to the Bible, worshiping any other false god is worship of Satan. That's your misconception there. Pm me to dispute any time about anything relating to God. Bring to me your "contradictions" and such and I shall tackle them all. Pride? No. Faith, for God is with me. GoddessRealm629 does anyone recall the bible was write by men...odinary men. That is all I have to say to this portion. The bible was written by men. This God is supposed to be an omnipotent, omniscent, all knowing, all seeing, being of pure good where no evil can touch him, for evil is the absence of God, no? Yet everything that is said and known comes from a text written by the flawed race of humans. The one said to be created in "his" image. This is one reason for the rambunctious contradictions that litter the teachings of the church. A true follower of this faith, I would say, would have to find his/her own path to God, and not through anyone else. To conclude, I leave with my own opinion. I am a believer in the unknown, there is power out there that is greater than us, there must be, I have seen far too much for there to be otherwise, this I know and will not dispute, however I do not believe a single entity exists to watch over all things, there are many, and each one is given power by those who believe in it. There are many that we don't know about as well, for other worlds that contain life who honor higher beings. My thoughts, God is real, God exists, God, is ancient as the Romans where his rise to power began through the teachings of men claiming to have seen his son. This God, is Roman in nature, this God is a God of War and Chaos. He has little mercy upon those he sees little use of, he is drunk on power, but has become responsible. He knows the consequences for neglecting his believers as they begin to perish by plague and famine, and he begins to lose some of his power. He fears others into whorshipping him, to gain more, and slanders the Horned God in an attempt to convince others. He thrives to create imbalance where there is balance, for that is the essence of chaos, and without chaos, nothing can proceed. Imbalance causes nature to react; it wishes to correct and fill. Species go extinct, others mutate, the ground is reshaped, and the air reformed. From these imbalances breed a number of things that cause the universe to change and reshape. This is what I believe about the nature of things, and the forces of nature. They are much larger than ours, and while there are limited resources out in the expanses of space and the universe, do not underestimate its might. The Bible was written by man ,yes but, god toldl them what to write exualy thats roung theres the nicen creed that was develiped in nicea about 64 ad.. i think any way it was divelioped & formulated by ordinary men god didnt tell them what to put they just disided what they should put in it them selves cause every one didnt know what they beleved. although i do respect what you beleve. i also respect what others do & dont belive
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:01 pm
Aurelia the Neko Witch Khalida Nyoka 93.
Wicca was started by Gerald Gardner. Gerald Gardner was a thelemite, who defected and made his own pacifistic version of Thelema, that devoted itself to the metaphysical... and holds a two-sided God (sun up/sun down) and a three-sided Goddess (waxing (the maiden), Full (the Lady), waning (the Crone)) above all else. I guess he was tired of thinking Frater Perdurabo (Aleister Crowley) was a prophet (I am inclined to feel the same).
I am not wiccan or thelemite... but I do tend to agree that to be Wiccan, on must be either a Gardnerian or Alexandrian Wiccan. Or at least the initiators must have originally been from one of those two sects. One can not be Wiccan if they do not worship both the God and goddess... and they must be the Wiccan deities... none of this "Hellenic" wicca et cetera. That is not Wicca... it is a nature-based religion that follows Greek deities.
In the Old testament witchcraft was evil sorcery. In the New testament, it was poisoning. Every religion, including Christianity, has changed from its beginnings... and every religion will be used to the advantage of individuals.
The Crusades were mentioned. That was an example of religion and politics coming together in the worst possible way. High ranking religious officials were fighting for their own goals.
Someone else said that the Qabalah was a fad. I'll start by saying no. The Qabalah is older than you probably think. It is, essentially, Hebrew mysticism. So unless you think that judaism is "just a fad" then I would suggest retracting the statement. I'm not Jewish, or a qabalist, and found myself bothered by that remark.
I'll do a quick recap with a little extra:
Gerald Gardener got most of his ideas from a group he had left (which was a monotheistic group, by the way). He lied about its origins. Most people who think they are Wiccan, really probably aren't (I won't kill you for saying you are, just because you weren't initiated or because you hate Gardner). That just makes it a matter of semantics.
Leave the Crusades alone. It could have happened with any group (and, for that matter, did).
No one is perfect, and most people claiming to follow the Law of Three don't.
The Qabalah is older than Wicca, and many of its origins (no Wicca wasn't the end of some uber old witch-cult... don't lie to yourself). It was no more a fad than Wicca is. If anyone contradicts the statement that the Qabalah was not a fad, they then assert that Wicca is a fad (of which there is ample evidence).
All that is left to be said is: play nice. If you don't like someone, learn to deal with it. If your religion forbids something... then start your own splinter sect... everyone else is doing it...
Wish I had more to say right now...
93 93/93. wicca was NOT started by gerald gardner wicca had been existing before even christian times, had gone underground, and was brought to the surface by gerald gardner One CAN be wiccan without belonging the the two sects you named those are just the more well known sects your right on the knowledge that no one is perfect, but 'ever mind the rule of three, what you give out comes back to thee' does not have anything to do with perfection. it means, what you reap is what you sow i agree
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:08 pm
(( sry i came into the discusion a little late sweatdrop ))
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Khalida Nyoka Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:25 pm
scrollto wiccans do not worship the devil!!!!! infact satinists do!!! I've nothing to say on the rest of the post, but I will say that not all Satanists worship any devil. LaVeyan/Atheistic/Philosophical satanists do not believe in any sort of higher power at all. The Church of Satan is an atheistic religion... You must be thinking of either Demonolatry or Luciferianism.
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:12 am
You know in my honest opinion if you got rid of religion compleatly....and killed the entire Bush family. The world would have less war, less fighting, and less guys just waving there pricks around!
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:01 pm
I think, until the overall mindset of mankind changes, and in general people become less vain and insecure, they will always have something to say about other peoples beliefs. no matter if it be pagan, christian, jewish, muslim, shamanism... doesnt matter. It's ALL wrong, and it's done to everyone on some level. when I first became pagan, my mother asked me where does jesus fit in to it? ('cause I told her about all the pantheons of all the different ancient peoples nature religions).. and I had to tell her flat out, he doesnt. but that's his followers fault. they persecuted people of ancient faiths for heracy, burned em, beheaded them, tortured them.. hell, even people who wernt witches but were accused of being so. she really had nothing to say about it, she saw the logical reasoning behind it.
I personaly think people should just live and let live already. what does it MATTER what other people believe? It doesnt affect anyone else but THEM, so leave it already. I for one believe those who are most vocal about their beliefs and seek to convert others to their beliefs are covering up for a deep seated possibly subconscious insecurity of the possibility that they themselves are wrong.
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:43 pm
lilraine I personaly think people should just live and let live already. what does it MATTER what other people believe? It doesnt affect anyone else but THEM, so leave it already. I for one believe those who are most vocal about their beliefs and seek to convert others to their beliefs are covering up for a deep seated possibly subconscious insecurity of the possibility that they themselves are wrong. People should assume there is a possibility that they are wrong, you are correct. However, it is important to note that these religions which seek to convert people do so because otherwise the "heathens" would have to suffer eternally... but if they convert, they will be saved. You may feel free to say you did not want their help, but you can't blame them for doing what they think will genuinely help you.
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Khalida Nyoka Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:27 am
those who seek to convert people like JW's or mormons are commissioned by their church to do so on the basis of saving souls.. yes, and I think those that do so are sincere. but someone started these religious sects and I still believe that subconsciously, it's insecurity that fueled it.
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:30 am
Gluttony3280 Did you know that Constantine (ruler of Constantinople) was a Wiccan and on his death bed he was forcefully baptized. Just so the Christian community could say he was a Christian. just a friendly FYI.. Constantine was not wiccan. the wiccan religion is not yet even 100 years old. it's an eclectic religion pieced together by a variety of different cultures ancient pagan beliefs and ways. smile
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Khalida Nyoka Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:55 pm
lilraine those who seek to convert people like JW's or mormons are commissioned by their church to do so on the basis of saving souls.. yes, and I think those that do so are sincere. but someone started these religious sects and I still believe that subconsciously, it's insecurity that fueled it. I'd say you are probably right... it is never too good to be on a side hat is going to die out... but by having a large body of membership, it is more likely to succeed.
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