Church and State?

[Calypsophia]

this is what I have to say in the matter. when it comes to schools and prayer or religious instruction.... that belongs in the home. many of us live in a country full of people of different beliefs.. or none at all even. religious teaching has NO place in public schools. if anyone wants their kids taught religion or creationism in school, then send them to a catholic or other private religious school... that's what these schools were created for! religion is a highly personal thing and govt institutions have no right to support any one over any other. if there is a kid in school that wants to pray before lunchtime, by all means, it's a free country and no one is telling him he MUST do so, and most important of all he's not attempting to include any other kids in his prayer time.

I dont care if I see a nativity scene on some street corner at xmas time, or if I see banners saying "Happy Hanukah!" or "Happy Yule" or anything like that. and I have NO issues whatsoever over the term "Happy Holidays" as I believe that THAT is the most appropriate term for it because there are so many different cultural holidays at that same time of year. it includes them all and is the most courteous of all to use.  

[Sinmodonly]

There is a problem in the true divtions of the church and state as a whole. Many of our first laws are based off the church. In the court, you have to swear on the bible, yet what happens if you don't believe in the bible to start with. Our culture view points are influenced by the church and many of the core values that make up the sty em are from church core values as well. We can ever really have one with out the other.  

[Angels Requim]

squarecircle

Intelligent Design is not a theory. At best it's a superfluous hypothesis. Really it's creationism (and religion) parading around as pretend-science.

Evolution is as much a fact as gravity. Teachers don't teach stories about pretend invisible elves that keep us from floating to the sky and treat it as equal as the theory of gravity-- no, they teach GRAVITY.

In that same line of thought, they should teach evolution. NOT RELIGION.

School is for EDUCATION. If you want to learn about creationism, go to church.

But Evolution is still a theory. Creationism is a religous theory.
The problem is, no matter how much sense it does or doesn't make, and no matter how many people believe in it, scientist have not been able to view macro-evolution, or prove macro-evolution exists. That's why it is still debated. Sure, they have proven there is micro-evolution which points to the fact that there SHOULD be macro-evolution but it has yet to be proven as a fact.

the problem with Creationism is that it can never be proven for it is a religous belief, but that is a double edged sword because it can never be disproven either.

School is for education, and is learning about creationism not education about different religous beliefs? You still learn if they teach Creationism, but the school's shouldn't force creationism or evolution upon thier students, there lies the problem. I think it would be fine to teach either one, but when it comes to trying to impose either one on children and make them believe it too, that's when things go wrong.  

[Specter125]

A teacher has to be impartial in a public school, no matter what their actual opinion is. I'd understand a little bit if they used the things they say to try and appeal to their own students, but that shouldn't be necessary of good teachers. But all in all, a teacher who has to put in their own opinion about religion in a class that ISN'T about religion is a teacher who walks on thin ice.

Although, what I REALLY don't understand is why people even bother trying to prove they're right, considering that the existence of God is unfalsifiable; in other words, it's virtually inconsequential. There's no real point in believing in God, because, let's face it: if you rave and preach about how Jesus will damn little children to hell if they aren't well-behaved Christians, will the Lord grace you with his presence and give you a reward? I'd think not.  

[Calypsophia]

Mercyonthesoul

There is a problem in the true divtions of the church and state as a whole. Many of our first laws are based off the church. In the court, you have to swear on the bible, yet what happens if you don't believe in the bible to start with. Our culture view points are influenced by the church and many of the core values that make up the sty em are from church core values as well. We can ever really have one with out the other.

we may swear on the bible, which I feel is stupid considering not everyone as you say believes in it but our laws arent indigenous to christianity or judaism but that are common to all. even the message in the golden rule isnt unique to christianity. and that I think was part of the point. the founders of this country were mainly free thinkers. there were some christians, but most were deist, agnostic, or atheist. these people came from a world that was dominated and tortured by religion lording over government. there are radical religious people in every religion, and it was early christian radicals that allowed for things like the Inquisition and "witch" burnings... driving people from their homes in exile because they were jews (they did this in spain).

the practice of religion is personal and belongs in the home or a sacred place. not public school. I would completely resent any public school that made my son pray to a particular god, and taught bible classes. I'd have no problem if schools taught the basics of ALL religions. that seems to me to be more fair. it is wrong to endorse just one in a country built upon such massive diversity as the usa.  

[Calypsophia]

Specter125

A teacher has to be impartial in a public school, no matter what their actual opinion is. I'd understand a little bit if they used the things they say to try and appeal to their own students, but that shouldn't be necessary of good teachers. But all in all, a teacher who has to put in their own opinion about religion in a class that ISN'T about religion is a teacher who walks on thin ice.

Although, what I REALLY don't understand is why people even bother trying to prove they're right, considering that the existence of God is unfalsifiable; in other words, it's virtually inconsequential. There's no real point in believing in God, because, let's face it: if you rave and preach about how Jesus will damn little children to hell if they aren't well-behaved Christians, will the Lord grace you with his presence and give you a reward? I'd think not.

my personal opinion, those who need to prove their religion are the most subconsciously insecure about the matter. I think subconsciously they see other beliefs as a threat simply because now there's a possibility that he is wrong. and well... some people take their mythologies way too seriously so being wrong about it is very bothersome to them. perhaps they're not only trying to convince the other person, but also reinforcing to himself, his own convictions.  

[Decrepit Bunny Rabbit]

everyone should express an opinion but they shouldn't force people to think that that is the way that they should be living their life as well  

[azrael the reaper_95210]

schools should teach the basics of all major religions, and maybe even minor ones, if there are any known students/ teachers/etc of those beliefs. that way, students can better understand their peers' religions. and i mean giving equality to each religion, not just skimming over most, and then covering the religion of the "majority".

wearing symbols, carrying religious text, etc should be allowed as well. schools are required to be attended, and no one has the right to forcebly cut you off from your religion.

i say being educated about multiple religions is just as important as any subject in school. people create hate and discrimination against differences because they do not truly understand them. maybe is that was required we would cut down alot more on hate anddiscrimination.  

[Andromeda Zreng]

I'm sorry, but does anyone remember their American history lessons? The pilgrims came to America because they wanted to be free to worship how they willed.
As for teachers being biased in their teaching, I think it's okay to a certain extent. Teachers are required to teach state standards. Beyond that, they can teach whatever they want. It is not wrong for them to express their beliefs; however it is wrong for anyone to force their beliefs on another person, whether they are peers, teachers, or even government authorities. Authority was given to the authorities to keep the human race from going psycho, and although I have my own very strong Christian beliefs and will not stand down from those, I do not and will not and cannot force my beliefs on another person. I can and will try to reason with them but when they express their feeling that I am trying to force my beliefs on them, I will not go further. If a teacher is forcing his/her beliefs on students, that is abuse of authority. However, if the teacher has taught the standards set forth by the state and is not abusing the authority, they are free to teach what they will.  

[Card_King1]

I think that in elementary school and the lower grades only things which are not debatable should be taught. 2+2=4. Things like that. Why, In the higher grades like in high school and college, should a teacher not be given the opportunity to teach what he/she believes? Once a person can understand what he/she is being taught is not completely fact, then why not teach them the angle of science that the teacher believes? There are plenty of ideas out there. Its not like Christians or Atheists or Wiccans are all the teachers out there. I think that that would be the first step to creating a "marketplace" of ideas.

Benjamin  

[Je Suis La Vie]

Card_King1

I think that in elementary school and the lower grades only things which are not debatable should be taught. 2+2=4. Things like that. Why, In the higher grades like in high school and college, should a teacher not be given the opportunity to teach what he/she believes? Once a person can understand what he/she is being taught is not completely fact, then why not teach them the angle of science that the teacher believes? There are plenty of ideas out there. Its not like Christians or Atheists or Wiccans are all the teachers out there. I think that that would be the first step to creating a "marketplace" of ideas.

Benjamin

Im going to have to disagree with you. The teenage brain is still in development until around the age of 20. So it is quite easy for a teacher to persuade a student to think a different way, either for or against what s/he believes.

Schools should only teach what is Scientifically accepted. We could also teach about the different world religions, not from a "this is fact" perspective, but from a "this is what they believe." This is to help people accept others, and make a more peaceful world. Because people fear what they do not know/understand. At a private school, then they can teach however they want, to some extent.  

[FF Turk_Panto]

Shtona

Is it right for a teacher to be biased when discussing evolution and creationism? I live in North Carolina where the majority of the population is Christian, so of course, they are going to lean towards creationism. Today my History teacher was discussing Religion in the 1920's during the Harlem Renaissance and she made some very biased statements, as did the rest of the class. I'm an Atheist, so it really annoyed me, but either way, the question to talk about is simple. Is it ok for teachers to do that?

Absolutely not. Church and state needs to be separate, we have our places of religion and it is there that we express the ideals truly and on the side too if in conversation it had lead to that topic. Teachers are the ones who give you wisdom in which we take and learn. No biases should be expressed and if one teacher were to do this so then they are otherwise ignorant and should learn that all things do not revolve around their idea fully. Teachers need to understand of being neutral and rather have those who are learning write their opinions in an assignment in which the teacher can see both sides of the story. Nothing in general should be biased.  

[pancake apocalypse]

I had a geography teacher a couple years back that was always pushing her religion on us. She went as far as to say something about how God was angry with a boy for always misbehaving in class. Yet I know a couple of students that confronted administration about this, but she was never reprimanded that I know of. It was very upsetting.

Now this isn't about church in schools, but a friend of mine made a VERY good point:

"You know how they have seperation of church and state in America, but the (for example) President's religion is really important? (like people didn't like Kennedy being Catholic, Obama thinking he is Muslim, and Romney being Mormon) Over in England, even though the Queen is the head of the state religion, religion isn't important in elected officials. (Where church and state are the same legally, in actuality they are seperate and the reverse)"

Isn't that the oddest thing?

Do your demons, do they ever let you go? When you've tried do they hide deep inside? Is it someone that you know?