Truth and history

[azrael the reaper_95210]

okay so this is a quote from a very good friend of mine on gaia. Wondering what you all think on the subject:

The truth of all truths
The truth of all truths is that truth is not the truth. One's mentality is to tell the partial truth instead of the entire one. Even when we think we are telling the whole truth, the mind tends to leave out subtle details making a situation in where the truth becomes completely warped from what actually happened. So if the truth is not entirely the truth, can textbooks and other records be historically accurate? Is all that is the basis of human knowledge nothing but lie? We as a people, instead of trying to find all that is absolute fact, find general observations that could be far from the point we try to prove. So with that is all the knowledge that humans have accumulated really worth a damn? Can we call scholars and scientists, the basis of knowledge and text or just half-a** critics? Sure things can be proven true, such as cell division. But I'm talking about historical aspects as well. Can everything actually be true history? Can what is considered to be truth, really be true?

- Kazuma, very awesome online dude.  

[Verderbnis]

Truth is always told by the winner, therefore the victorious also writes history. During WWII there have been alot of attacks against harmless people by Soviets (and Allies) which got pushed to the Nazis later (which doesn't set them free from any charges). Truth is such a dirty business, that you can really do good money by creating it. There is not only one truth because there are too much people looking at the same thing from another point of view, without being able to perceive the whole spectrum of influences around them.

Imagine a hive of ants. One day a group of ants sees an elephant and they all start to argue because they have seen the elephants from different points...  

[Calypsophia]

your friend made a valid point. truth is quite relative. 5 people could all witness the same car accident, and all their stories will more or less differ according to their memory and perspective.

I have another point to make. the history we learn about in school is only one sided, and there is always at least 2 sides of the story whatever that story may be. and history is generally colored by the authors particular bias. the story of the American Revolution, for example, as told by the Americans is going to sound a bit different from what the British tell their citizens over in England. perspectives differ even if it's ever so slightly according to who's relaying the events. Any society is always going to try to put themselves in the best light possible when it comes to recorded history.  

[azrael the reaper_95210]

Calypsophia

your friend made a valid point. truth is quite relative. 5 people could all witness the same car accident, and all their stories will more or less differ according to their memory and perspective.

I have another point to make. the history we learn about in school is only one sided, and there is always at least 2 sides of the story whatever that story may be. and history is generally colored by the authors particular bias. the story of the American Revolution, for example, as told by the Americans is going to sound a bit different from what the British tell their citizens over in England. perspectives differ even if it's ever so slightly according to who's relaying the events. Any society is always going to try to put themselves in the best light possible when it comes to recorded history.

not to mention the fact that at different points in your education you are taught history differently. When you are younger, you are not taught brutal details of the war, only that we won. this is as opposed to learning it in high school or college, where you are mature enough to learn in more of the bloody details.

(of course many of you know my theories about education and knowledge....... and i think these words of my friend somewhat back up what I say...........)  

[Gopher dude]

The truth? You want the truth?! You can't handle the truth!!

Well...mabye you can.

The truth is..what you can see before you..what you can understand with all of your 5 senses..and the deeper truth is everything you can understand with your 6th sense...the things that give you goose bumps and the things that give you and other animals such a horrible feeling of fright...

Reality of it all is..you are an animal. You eat, you sleep, you build things out of wood, you poop, and you make love, and then eventually you die.
When you die who knows what, but for now this is truth..this is everything.  

[tricky_angel]

Some things are considered historical truth such as names and dates as they are accepted as concrete while theological, philosiphical and religious truth are open to the reader and writers discression to what they choose to believe.  

[Calypsophia]

tricky_angel

Some things are considered historical truth such as names and dates as they are accepted as concrete while theological, philosiphical and religious truth are open to the reader and writers discression to what they choose to believe.

yeah, names and dates are facts if they can be verified or collaborated in records.  

[azrael the reaper_95210]

Calypsophia

tricky_angel

Some things are considered historical truth such as names and dates as they are accepted as concrete while theological, philosiphical and religious truth are open to the reader and writers discression to what they choose to believe.

yeah, names and dates are facts if they can be verified or collaborated in records.

but then that raises the question as to how much you trust "verified" records.......  

[azrael the reaper_95210]

"The only true knowledge is knowing that you KNOW nothing" - Socrates  

[shadow_humper]

The truth shall be saught by those who seek knowledge. That which is in text and spoken through generations is only a glimps of what once acured. The human mind urges one to seek the truth of these tellings, rendering the truth still the truth. If one were to simply take what is handed to them, then they are ignorant to the truth. You must look beyond that which lies in front of you to what lies beyond. Search for yourself that what you seek to know and all shall be clear. An inlightened mind comes from self teachings, not the teachings of others.  

[FF Turk_Panto]

azrael the reaper

okay so this is a quote from a very good friend of mine on gaia. Wondering what you all think on the subject:

The truth of all truths
The truth of all truths is that truth is not the truth. One's mentality is to tell the partial truth instead of the entire one. Even when we think we are telling the whole truth, the mind tends to leave out subtle details making a situation in where the truth becomes completely warped from what actually happened. So if the truth is not entirely the truth, can textbooks and other records be historically accurate? Is all that is the basis of human knowledge nothing but lie? We as a people, instead of trying to find all that is absolute fact, find general observations that could be far from the point we try to prove. So with that is all the knowledge that humans have accumulated really worth a damn? Can we call scholars and scientists, the basis of knowledge and text or just half-a** critics? Sure things can be proven true, such as cell division. But I'm talking about historical aspects as well. Can everything actually be true history? Can what is considered to be truth, really be true?

- Kazuma, very awesome online dude.

A very wise friend you have here and he explains himself well especially his ideas on truth however one thing I wish of your friend to know about truth is that he is very much correct in what he says about the truth, but we as human follow this little paradox....

Is there really truth?
True or False

Now you can say False here to that question but this question therefore becomes true in this case truth exists and of course if you choose the other option that you as the solver has admitted that there is truth and therefore truth exists. Now this can prove truth, but truth however can be further questioned. Your friend here says "The truth of all truths is that truth is not the truth" he is indeed correct but this truth is what is known as the Primal Truth. Look up Thomas Aquinas for this explanation since Primal truth is the forever truth and all knowing truth in which it is never false. This truth is then argued that this truth can not be attained since this possible greater being holds this truth yet how do we know this for i do not know whether or not this exists. So to prove truth is to prove that this greater being is here in which I cannot explain or even answer. In all cases truth and this higher being connection to it is simply said that it can only be argued and thought about, but never can it conclude until which we see the answers from a view we wont know until we cease.  

[ThanatosOfTheEnd]

We reach out with our hands
Brush away the clouds and pierce the sky
To grab the moon and Mars
but we still can't reach the truth  

[Sullen Couch]

The winners write history, thus the losers are painted as villains.
it's all propaganda.
1984, for example.
Had the Nazis won, it's obvious that the war would've been described completely differently now.
Same with any other war, really.
and I do mean ANY OTHER WAR.  

[Verderbnis]

The Nazis were not able to win from the beginning:

But coming back to WWII, which kept me busy a lot, since the Nazi regime also afflicted damages to my family:

The german economy wonder: Hooray, the allies have rebuild our facilities, we are lucky. NO, in fact most of the facilities were still able work, except that they lacked of all necessary supplies to produce things. The allied forces just provided some starting resources.

The hardest enemy: Well, the USA really came away good from WWII, because they have lost only about 10000 Soldiers, while the soviet casualties went up in millions. The soviet soldiers were the toughest enemy, since they were the first ones who EVER stood against the Nazis, while the western states sympathized with Hitlers ideas.

The german resistance: Well, in movies especially from the co-owner of the WWII Franchise Steven Spielberg I get told, that every german was a Nazi. In fact, the toughest resistance came from Ernst Thälmann and other left wingers, sure the clerics also resisted, but the majority of them was sticking their head into the earth.

Pope Pius: Maybe the most reason why I don't believe in god, he blessed the arms of the Wehrmacht and "knew nothing about the holocaust".

The netherlands: You should close your head, before coming up with oldfashioned stereotypes, it was you who plantes signs on the german border: "Jews are not wished in this country."

Switzerland: I don't like the state of switzerland for the following reason: they don't take party, while their entire country is a complete fortress they had the power to block the Nazis for a longer time, but they rather came to the idea to store Nazi gold. Switzerland is a bank for dictators and tyrants.

American industry and the Nazi moves: That's quite a simple calculation. Here in germany we don't have Vauxhalls, because they're called Opel here. As you might know: Vauxhall/Opel is owned by General Motors. GM owned the brand before WWII and what was one of the most used vehicles of the Wehrmacht and SS? The Opel "Blitz", now I want to know why the main company General Motors did not simply cut the money to the german works.

Anyways, some things may sound provoking, I just wanted to point with my finger in some directions again. The ultimate truth is: war in every way sucks!  

[FF Turk_Panto]

Even so though what you say as an ultimate truth is truly just a jest considering that it's more of a fact where for some others it is simply fiction. History is a puzzle in this case many things read today are being re-interpreted through other sources from other points of view. History is biased in many minds today, but we follow it to understand the backgrounds and then branch from there using other sources from other views. It is to gain the simple understanding as to why those events happened. War does not just simply occur through anger, but through many pieces such as Industrial Revolutions, Patriotism, Allainces, etc. and as ugly as it is it is a masterpiece in seeing the human being creating as well as recording their memories, but with the pieces mentioned above. Hence history can not be explained just by one plain view and by finger pointing, but simply from a view in which one can observe all the sides and to understand why. History folks is like philosophy in which one ponders endlessly in order to gain knowledge. I have already given my whole view to truth up above on this forum so feel free to be critics to what I say.