China

[-Less than Graceful-]

I'm sure you have all heard about the natural disaster in China. I find it odd how we can easily see it on the news then put it to the back of our minds, but it shouldn't be there. I know it's hard to empathise with a whole nation but Just a minute ago I found this on dA and it made me cry:

When the rescuers found her, she was already dead. She was kneeling, her body bent forwards, her two hands were on the ground - propping up her body; it was almost like she was praying, except her body was bent out of shape.

Just as the rescue team was about to leave, someone suddenly yelled 'Come back!' They returned to her corpse, someone reached out a hand under her body. They rummaged for a while, and then shouted. 'There's someone there. A child! It's still alive!'

Carefully, they cleared the rubble around her, and retrieved the child beneath her body. He was wrapped in a red blanket, covered with yellow flowers, only 3, 4 months of age. He was completely unhurt, protected under his mother's body. And when they took him out, he was slumbering peacefully.

A doctor unraveled the blanket to examine the child, and found a mobile phone. He glanced at it absent-mindedly, noticing the screen bore a short message. Tears ran down his cheeks as he read.

'My dear child, if you survive, always remember that I love you.'



This is a true story: http://www.sx.xinhuanet.com/rdsp/2008-05/16/content_13285897.htm That is the child that survived.


Be moved, be aware. This doesn't belong in the back of your mind, so move it.

I wish I could dissable comments, because this isn't something to be discussed, but feel free to leave your thoughts if you wish.  

[Harlot Queen]

Probably other people don't feel this way because they are prejudiced. it is obvious that the chinese come to america and are able to take high positions, and americans can't realize it. a lot of chinese i know are pretentious, and only support other chinese. it isn't like we never help china. you can only ask so much of a nation. itis hard to support several nations at a time.

i could ask you the same thing about darfur. have you brought that up yet?
people in africa are dying from genocide, and the united states and un can do only so much to intervene. same idea with china. there are plenty of people who raise money for darfur, and not everyone feels the same way as you think they do. the united states does much to help other countries,but other countries shouldn't feel obligated to do such. if you want something done about it, voice your opinion in your community, and maybe you can raise money to help china's struggle  

[-Less than Graceful-]

Harlot Queen

Probably other people don't feel this way because they are prejudiced. it is obvious that the chinese come to america and are able to take high positions, and americans can't realize it. a lot of chinese i know are pretentious, and only support other chinese. it isn't like we never help china. you can only ask so much of a nation. itis hard to support several nations at a time.

i could ask you the same thing about darfur. have you brought that up yet?
people in africa are dying from genocide, and the united states and un can do only so much to intervene. same idea with china. there are plenty of people who raise money for darfur, and not everyone feels the same way as you think they do. the united states does much to help other countries,but other countries shouldn't feel obligated to do such. if you want something done about it, voice your opinion in your community, and maybe you can raise money to help china's struggle

I realise that countires are doing things to help, and that they may be doing as much as they possibly can. I this post is not about getting people to do more, or even do anything. I'm just saying that people can let it slip their minds with all that they do in their lives, and so I think that people should sometimes remember that there are people out there in real trouble who deserve a thought. I do feel for all the countries, and idividuals who suffer all over the globe. 'Stories' like this can make other people think about those who suffer as individuals not just a sector of the world and that is why I posted this: so people might be able to empathise with those suffering. Even if people are prejudiced it shouldn't prevent them giving a damn, and if it does then I must say that they are horrible people as they don't know every person in China and what that person is like.  

[Katta Tsuki]

I have to say, that I cry about stuff like this in a more general sense often. It's horrible, but when you think... So many people die leaving behind dreams... family... children (as in this instance)... some depart this world without anything, unloved. It makes me think... and I try to remember things like this every day. People should. Never, ever forget, because when you do, you sort of just stop caring.  

[ekitten614]

I think it's absolutely terrible that people can just forget about things like Darfur or China, but humans are selfish by nature and want to think about themselves and their lives more, and don't want to give up possessions or money to help others. Also, I don't know if the human mind could cope with all the horrors out there. There's so much going on that's so terribly sad and horrible... I don't know if I could keep on living if I found every bad thing going on in the world.

(I've got a story of my own now, ^^)

We went to Washington D.C. for a band trip a week ago, and it was a blast! Amazing! But a couple things really bothered me... The night after we marched in the Memorial Day parade, we were going around looking at monuments and such... and people would keep complaining of how their feet hurt and they were SOOO tired, and didn't want to keep walking around seeing "stupid monuments and statues". So the tour guide and band director finally relented, and gave us the choice to stay on the bus, or keep looking at monuments. A lot of people stayed behind, and couldn't walk any farther to show a little respect for the men and women who've served for our country. I pity them, it was a pretty great experience.

Another thing... many people (and I'm guilty of this too) turn monuments of wars and death into pretty things to be photographed. We all got out our cameras and spent more time taking pictures than looking and remembering. And a lot of people didn't seem to care about the enormous number of people who died for each war, they just wanted a picture, a glance, and then they'd shove it to the back of their minds. A friend thankfully reminded me of what we were really here for, and I am so grateful to him.

I also realized that not many people were grateful to be there, and really should be. Not every school has a great music program. Not every student has supportive parents. Not everyone can afford to travel like we did. I tried to keep that in mind for the rest of our trip and be thankful.

(Sorry this post's so long!)  

[-Less than Graceful-]

Katta Tsuki

I have to say, that I cry about stuff like this in a more general sense often. It's horrible, but when you think... So many people die leaving behind dreams... family... children (as in this instance)... some depart this world without anything, unloved. It makes me think... and I try to remember things like this every day. People should. Never, ever forget, because when you do, you sort of just stop caring.

I couldn't have put it better myself :3  

[-Less than Graceful-]

ekitten614

I think it's absolutely terrible that people can just forget about things like Darfur or China, but humans are selfish by nature and want to think about themselves and their lives more, and don't want to give up possessions or money to help others. Also, I don't know if the human mind could cope with all the horrors out there. There's so much going on that's so terribly sad and horrible... I don't know if I could keep on living if I found every bad thing going on in the world.

(I've got a story of my own now, ^^)

We went to Washington D.C. for a band trip a week ago, and it was a blast! Amazing! But a couple things really bothered me... The night after we marched in the Memorial Day parade, we were going around looking at monuments and such... and people would keep complaining of how their feet hurt and they were SOOO tired, and didn't want to keep walking around seeing "stupid monuments and statues". So the tour guide and band director finally relented, and gave us the choice to stay on the bus, or keep looking at monuments. A lot of people stayed behind, and couldn't walk any farther to show a little respect for the men and women who've served for our country. I pity them, it was a pretty great experience.

Another thing... many people (and I'm guilty of this too) turn monuments of wars and death into pretty things to be photographed. We all got out our cameras and spent more time taking pictures than looking and remembering. And a lot of people didn't seem to care about the enormous number of people who died for each war, they just wanted a picture, a glance, and then they'd shove it to the back of their minds. A friend thankfully reminded me of what we were really here for, and I am so grateful to him.

I also realized that not many people were grateful to be there, and really should be. Not every school has a great music program. Not every student has supportive parents. Not everyone can afford to travel like we did. I tried to keep that in mind for the rest of our trip and be thankful.

(Sorry this post's so long!)

Indeed, I'm sure if we knew all the horrors of this world we would literally go mad. Though some are stupidly selfish and perhaps need to be burdend with some knowledge to end thier selfishness.

That was a good anidote/story (whichever is more appropirate). Thankyou for sharing that. I like long posts :3  

[Same Old Song And Dance]

It really makes made me mad about how people like Sharon Stone could say that was karma. What could that baby had done to lose his mother. I'm not happy about what the government is doing to Tibet but no one desevred that.  

[Khalida Nyoka]

Why, exactly, should I experience emotional anguish for people who willingly live in a section of the world that is in drastic opposition to everything I believe and stand for?

For that matter, why is this subject so essential that it can not be discussed? People aren't allowed to believe that they personally don't owe anything to citizens of a far away land? Or is it that, magically, once something unfortunate happens to those people all prior beliefs/opinions on life don't matter, and we are obligated to help?  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

Khalida Nyoka

Why, exactly, should I experience emotional anguish for people who willingly live in a section of the world that is in drastic opposition to everything I believe and stand for?

For that matter, why is this subject so essential that it can not be discussed? People aren't allowed to believe that they personally don't owe anything to citizens of a far away land? Or is it that, magically, once something unfortunate happens to those people all prior beliefs/opinions on life don't matter, and we are obligated to help?

Whoa, there! For all the rich Chinese, there are millions living in poverty that may want to leave the country but can't for many reasons. I don't think it's fair to say that they are all living there willingly.

You're allowed to believe whatever you want; you presumably live in a free country. Basically, I'm going to say 'yes' to your last question. As someone with a great deal of empathy, when I see someone who is in danger of dying or living in terrible conditions, I want to help them because I understand that if it was me in that situation, I would want to be helped. What I'm getting at is that life and dignity are human rights that need to be protected, and politics can come later. Certainly you have every right to think differently, but unfortunately people like me will most likely perceive you as cold, selfish, and cruel.  

[Khalida Nyoka]

Nemesis Erinys

Khalida Nyoka

Why, exactly, should I experience emotional anguish for people who willingly live in a section of the world that is in drastic opposition to everything I believe and stand for?

For that matter, why is this subject so essential that it can not be discussed? People aren't allowed to believe that they personally don't owe anything to citizens of a far away land? Or is it that, magically, once something unfortunate happens to those people all prior beliefs/opinions on life don't matter, and we are obligated to help?

Whoa, there! For all the rich Chinese, there are millions living in poverty that may want to leave the country but can't for many reasons. I don't think it's fair to say that they are all living there willingly.

You're allowed to believe whatever you want; you presumably live in a free country. Basically, I'm going to say 'yes' to your last question. As someone with a great deal of empathy, when I see someone who is in danger of dying or living in terrible conditions, I want to help them because I understand that if it was me in that situation, I would want to be helped. What I'm getting at is that life and dignity are human rights that need to be protected, and politics can come later. Certainly you have every right to think differently, but unfortunately people like me will most likely perceive you as cold, selfish, and cruel.

(As a prior note: I'm really beginning to enjoy it when you post, keep up the good work!)

I appreciate that atleast you are willing to discuss the issue.

You are more likely correct than not when you say that many are probably living there against their will. As a citizen of the USA, I do have many more opportunities for everything/anything, than most people in any other country on the world.

I agree that life and dignity are fundamental human rights, and that they should be preserved. In light of that idea/ideal, it would make more sense that, internationally, China be dealt with. Time and time again, the Chinese government have shown that they are incapable of actually handling a country as large as they are (geographically large, as well as an amazing proportion of the world's people).

Continuing with China being innefectively run, they actively oppose the very idea of individual worth. That is the core of Authoritarian Socialism. Individuals are not worth much, only their ability to contribute to their fellows.

So I suppose what I really mean is this: why should I rush to help the Chinese people, when they are no longer standing up for themselves?

Since Tiananmen square, they've become fearful and quiet. Slowly they get a bit of reform, but they will not force it. If they'll not fight for themselves, if they don't think their rights/lives/dignity are worth fighting for, why should I?


~
Not quite on topic, but I was recently described as "callous and mean." So I suppose I'm not surprised when you say I could be seen as cold and uncaring.
As far as dignity is concerned, I think a person would be happier if they got the joy of breaking out of their own mess. If I were in a situation of poverty and such, I would appreciate help... but I'd always wonder if the only reason my life improved was because of someone else, and not because I have the ability to change my own life.  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

Khalida Nyoka

Nemesis Erinys

Khalida Nyoka

Why, exactly, should I experience emotional anguish for people who willingly live in a section of the world that is in drastic opposition to everything I believe and stand for?

For that matter, why is this subject so essential that it can not be discussed? People aren't allowed to believe that they personally don't owe anything to citizens of a far away land? Or is it that, magically, once something unfortunate happens to those people all prior beliefs/opinions on life don't matter, and we are obligated to help?

Whoa, there! For all the rich Chinese, there are millions living in poverty that may want to leave the country but can't for many reasons. I don't think it's fair to say that they are all living there willingly.

You're allowed to believe whatever you want; you presumably live in a free country. Basically, I'm going to say 'yes' to your last question. As someone with a great deal of empathy, when I see someone who is in danger of dying or living in terrible conditions, I want to help them because I understand that if it was me in that situation, I would want to be helped. What I'm getting at is that life and dignity are human rights that need to be protected, and politics can come later. Certainly you have every right to think differently, but unfortunately people like me will most likely perceive you as cold, selfish, and cruel.

(As a prior note: I'm really beginning to enjoy it when you post, keep up the good work!)

I appreciate that atleast you are willing to discuss the issue.

You are more likely correct than not when you say that many are probably living there against their will. As a citizen of the USA, I do have many more opportunities for everything/anything, than most people in any other country on the world.

I agree that life and dignity are fundamental human rights, and that they should be preserved. In light of that idea/ideal, it would make more sense that, internationally, China be dealt with. Time and time again, the Chinese government have shown that they are incapable of actually handling a country as large as they are (geographically large, as well as an amazing proportion of the world's people).

Continuing with China being innefectively run, they actively oppose the very idea of individual worth. That is the core of Authoritarian Socialism. Individuals are not worth much, only their ability to contribute to their fellows.

So I suppose what I really mean is this: why should I rush to help the Chinese people, when they are no longer standing up for themselves?

Since Tiananmen square, they've become fearful and quiet. Slowly they get a bit of reform, but they will not force it. If they'll not fight for themselves, if they don't think their rights/lives/dignity are worth fighting for, why should I?


~
Not quite on topic, but I was recently described as "callous and mean." So I suppose I'm not surprised when you say I could be seen as cold and uncaring.
As far as dignity is concerned, I think a person would be happier if they got the joy of breaking out of their own mess. If I were in a situation of poverty and such, I would appreciate help... but I'd always wonder if the only reason my life improved was because of someone else, and not because I have the ability to change my own life.

I apologize if that was hurtful in any way, I just didn't know how to put it any more delicately. sweatdrop I am also enjoying talking to you; it's always nice to find someone capable of intelligent discussion without flying off the handle with assumptions.

You make excellent points about the problems of Chinese society. I think many of those problems might stem from the way Asian societies were developed from. Many Asian societies developed from the idea that an individual is not important and the family and group as a whole are what is important, and so the individual must sacrifice himself/herself to the whole, as opposed to Western societies where value is placed on the individual to "be their own man." This could be the source of a slew of problems in their society, including why individuals might not try to leave even though it would be better for them, why their problems might be ignored, etc.

I can also see your point about letting someone help themselves. While I still think it is important to help in extreme situations, I think it would be best to try to help them help themselves.  

[Khalida Nyoka]

Nemesis Erinys

Khalida Nyoka

Nemesis Erinys

Khalida Nyoka

Why, exactly, should I experience emotional anguish for people who willingly live in a section of the world that is in drastic opposition to everything I believe and stand for?

For that matter, why is this subject so essential that it can not be discussed? People aren't allowed to believe that they personally don't owe anything to citizens of a far away land? Or is it that, magically, once something unfortunate happens to those people all prior beliefs/opinions on life don't matter, and we are obligated to help?

Whoa, there! For all the rich Chinese, there are millions living in poverty that may want to leave the country but can't for many reasons. I don't think it's fair to say that they are all living there willingly.

You're allowed to believe whatever you want; you presumably live in a free country. Basically, I'm going to say 'yes' to your last question. As someone with a great deal of empathy, when I see someone who is in danger of dying or living in terrible conditions, I want to help them because I understand that if it was me in that situation, I would want to be helped. What I'm getting at is that life and dignity are human rights that need to be protected, and politics can come later. Certainly you have every right to think differently, but unfortunately people like me will most likely perceive you as cold, selfish, and cruel.

(As a prior note: I'm really beginning to enjoy it when you post, keep up the good work!)

I appreciate that atleast you are willing to discuss the issue.

You are more likely correct than not when you say that many are probably living there against their will. As a citizen of the USA, I do have many more opportunities for everything/anything, than most people in any other country on the world.

I agree that life and dignity are fundamental human rights, and that they should be preserved. In light of that idea/ideal, it would make more sense that, internationally, China be dealt with. Time and time again, the Chinese government have shown that they are incapable of actually handling a country as large as they are (geographically large, as well as an amazing proportion of the world's people).

Continuing with China being ineffectively run, they actively oppose the very idea of individual worth. That is the core of Authoritarian Socialism. Individuals are not worth much, only their ability to contribute to their fellows.

So I suppose what I really mean is this: why should I rush to help the Chinese people, when they are no longer standing up for themselves?

Since Tiananmen square, they've become fearful and quiet. Slowly they get a bit of reform, but they will not force it. If they'll not fight for themselves, if they don't think their rights/lives/dignity are worth fighting for, why should I?


~
Not quite on topic, but I was recently described as "callous and mean." So I suppose I'm not surprised when you say I could be seen as cold and uncaring.
As far as dignity is concerned, I think a person would be happier if they got the joy of breaking out of their own mess. If I were in a situation of poverty and such, I would appreciate help... but I'd always wonder if the only reason my life improved was because of someone else, and not because I have the ability to change my own life.

I apologize if that was hurtful in any way, I just didn't know how to put it any more delicately. sweatdrop I am also enjoying talking to you; it's always nice to find someone capable of intelligent discussion without flying off the handle with assumptions.

You make excellent points about the problems of Chinese society. I think many of those problems might stem from the way Asian societies were developed from. Many Asian societies developed from the idea that an individual is not important and the family and group as a whole are what is important, and so the individual must sacrifice himself/herself to the whole, as opposed to Western societies where value is placed on the individual to "be their own man." This could be the source of a slew of problems in their society, including why individuals might not try to leave even though it would be better for them, why their problems might be ignored, etc.

I can also see your point about letting someone help themselves. While I still think it is important to help in extreme situations, I think it would be best to try to help them help themselves.

It wasn't hurtful, I was only pointing out that I wouldn't be surprised if people perceived me in such a way.

I do think it is fair to say that it is a strongly cultural bond that would keep them there.
What I wonder is: Would it be possible to actually get the people of the People's Republic to stand against their oppressors? It is quite difficult to "save" someone, when they don't want to be saved. I think many people (myself included) would be much more likely to even want to help, if the oppressed people made the first move.

I think my only big question left is: how much would it take to get the Chinese People to start the "revolution?"


~
I will admit that there are cases in which a person (or group) actually can not prevail without help. I imagine that a good deal of why I'd rather let a person figure their own situation out is because most people will say "need," when the mean "want." I'm sure you've seen this in people from all ages, and all ethnic groups.
So when people say "I need help," I wonder first if they've actually tried to do well on their own (not some poor excuse of an attempt, but a genuine all-out effort).  

[-Less than Graceful-]

Send Me A Cool Breeze

It really makes made me mad about how people like Sharon Stone could say that was karma. What could that baby had done to lose his mother. I'm not happy about what the government is doing to Tibet but no one desevred that.

Wow I didn't know that had been said. That person truely has a soul clouded by ignorance and stupidity.  

[-Less than Graceful-]

Khalida Nyoka

Nemesis Erinys

Khalida Nyoka

Nemesis Erinys

Khalida Nyoka

Why, exactly, should I experience emotional anguish for people who willingly live in a section of the world that is in drastic opposition to everything I believe and stand for?

For that matter, why is this subject so essential that it can not be discussed? People aren't allowed to believe that they personally don't owe anything to citizens of a far away land? Or is it that, magically, once something unfortunate happens to those people all prior beliefs/opinions on life don't matter, and we are obligated to help?

Whoa, there! For all the rich Chinese, there are millions living in poverty that may want to leave the country but can't for many reasons. I don't think it's fair to say that they are all living there willingly.

You're allowed to believe whatever you want; you presumably live in a free country. Basically, I'm going to say 'yes' to your last question. As someone with a great deal of empathy, when I see someone who is in danger of dying or living in terrible conditions, I want to help them because I understand that if it was me in that situation, I would want to be helped. What I'm getting at is that life and dignity are human rights that need to be protected, and politics can come later. Certainly you have every right to think differently, but unfortunately people like me will most likely perceive you as cold, selfish, and cruel.

(As a prior note: I'm really beginning to enjoy it when you post, keep up the good work!)

I appreciate that atleast you are willing to discuss the issue.

You are more likely correct than not when you say that many are probably living there against their will. As a citizen of the USA, I do have many more opportunities for everything/anything, than most people in any other country on the world.

I agree that life and dignity are fundamental human rights, and that they should be preserved. In light of that idea/ideal, it would make more sense that, internationally, China be dealt with. Time and time again, the Chinese government have shown that they are incapable of actually handling a country as large as they are (geographically large, as well as an amazing proportion of the world's people).

Continuing with China being ineffectively run, they actively oppose the very idea of individual worth. That is the core of Authoritarian Socialism. Individuals are not worth much, only their ability to contribute to their fellows.

So I suppose what I really mean is this: why should I rush to help the Chinese people, when they are no longer standing up for themselves?

Since Tiananmen square, they've become fearful and quiet. Slowly they get a bit of reform, but they will not force it. If they'll not fight for themselves, if they don't think their rights/lives/dignity are worth fighting for, why should I?


~
Not quite on topic, but I was recently described as "callous and mean." So I suppose I'm not surprised when you say I could be seen as cold and uncaring.
As far as dignity is concerned, I think a person would be happier if they got the joy of breaking out of their own mess. If I were in a situation of poverty and such, I would appreciate help... but I'd always wonder if the only reason my life improved was because of someone else, and not because I have the ability to change my own life.

I apologize if that was hurtful in any way, I just didn't know how to put it any more delicately. sweatdrop I am also enjoying talking to you; it's always nice to find someone capable of intelligent discussion without flying off the handle with assumptions.

You make excellent points about the problems of Chinese society. I think many of those problems might stem from the way Asian societies were developed from. Many Asian societies developed from the idea that an individual is not important and the family and group as a whole are what is important, and so the individual must sacrifice himself/herself to the whole, as opposed to Western societies where value is placed on the individual to "be their own man." This could be the source of a slew of problems in their society, including why individuals might not try to leave even though it would be better for them, why their problems might be ignored, etc.

I can also see your point about letting someone help themselves. While I still think it is important to help in extreme situations, I think it would be best to try to help them help themselves.

It wasn't hurtful, I was only pointing out that I wouldn't be surprised if people perceived me in such a way.

I do think it is fair to say that it is a strongly cultural bond that would keep them there.
What I wonder is: Would it be possible to actually get the people of the People's Republic to stand against their oppressors? It is quite difficult to "save" someone, when they don't want to be saved. I think many people (myself included) would be much more likely to even want to help, if the oppressed people made the first move.

I think my only big question left is: how much would it take to get the Chinese People to start the "revolution?"


~
I will admit that there are cases in which a person (or group) actually can not prevail without help. I imagine that a good deal of why I'd rather let a person figure their own situation out is because most people will say "need," when the mean "want." I'm sure you've seen this in people from all ages, and all ethnic groups.
So when people say "I need help," I wonder first if they've actually tried to do well on their own (not some poor excuse of an attempt, but a genuine all-out effort).

Sort of joining in here, sorry if this is a private disscussion.

I feel it's unfair of you to say that they do not want to be saved, because I am sure that they do. Many groups of people large and small have been resisting but it's hard to start a revolution and break free without help when everytime you opposoe the government they send out half the army with tear gas and tanks. I understand that you may feel it a task to want to help those who seem not to be helping themselves, but in a way I feel that they need others help to be able to help themselves.

So to answer your question to get the people of China to to start a revolution I'm affraid that the government troops need to be far away from China so the people feel that they have a hope of truely sucseeding.

Nice dicussing by the way, I can't believe I missed you guys, brothers fault!