So, Grass Types.

[wellwisher]

This subforum needs more activity. So, Grass Type, what do you think of them? just in general. if their strengths and type advantages are worth enough to counter their type disadvantages, what the best one is, what the best type to mix it with is, those types of things. Also, here are two pictures.

 

[Nadian]

Two very noteworthy (combat-wise) grass types:


Breloom
An all-around painful little monster. It boasts a good handful of useful combat abilities:

*Incredible physical attack power
*Enhanced grass stalling tactics (Spore is a rare move)
*Poison Heal ability to enhance staying power (heals 1/8 of max HP)

If a Breloom successfully sets up, it can be incredibly painful to try and remove it. There's enough physical power to take down lots of pokemon, and thanks to its grassy trickiness it usually gets a chance to pull something off.

Breloom's glaring weaknesses are its poor defenses and poor speed.


Celebi
A tricky pokemon to acquire outside of Japan thanks to the rarity of its release, and its typing might make it seem undesirable thanks to seven total weaknesses. However, Celebi still sees a lot of usage. Its status as a legendary provides it with a couple advantages:

-An enhanced movepool
-Better-than-average stats

The type disadvantages can be overcome with the assistance of teammates. Heatran, for example, resists all seven types that Celebi is weak to (and, interestingly enough, Celebi resists the three types that are effective against Heatran.)

I have not personally seen a Celebi in action so I'm not sure what people commonly use it for. Even reading Smogon's notes on it is a bit enigmatic ; there are 14 sets to look at!  

[wellwisher]

So, Breloom, the mushroom thing.
I can agree with it's high attack, and it's stalling. I'm not so sure about Poison Heal. (it's not exactly recover/Roost) Since it seems to only work when you're Poisoned. is it static like Leech Seed? (activating eac turn) or is it like recover and works each time you activate it?
Low speed is a pretty glaring weakness. Defense not quite as high of a weakness as low Special Defense. But still something to be concerned about I suppose.


I can see Celebi being tough. with the advanced movepool and stat gain would be a very big edge. So, Heatran and Celebi make for a good pairing.
It looks like with it's weaknesses being double damage from Fire, Ice Poison, Flying, Ghost, and Dark. (and 4X damage from Bug, unless the bug attacker is a bug where it would be 8X damage)
is the 1/2 water, electric, Grass, Fighting, Ground, Compensated enough?
I know that Fire, Poison, Flying, Ghost, Dark, Water, electric, Grass, and Ground are popular choices as they can in various combinations take down almost all legends.

And, for the type that would be best suited to pair with Grass for the best type advantage? Like, how Espeon is great, but dark plus fire (houndoom) or with Ghost (spiritomb/Sableye) can make stronger pokemon then just as is.  

[Nadian]

Breloom:
Poison Heal is its ability, so that means it activates at the end of each turn when Breloom is poisoned. It's like Leftovers except it heals twice as much HP. For a few additional benefits, this also means that the Poison status will do no damage to Breloom (because it heals, instead.) Acquiring this status also prevents Breloom from being affected by other status effects, so no Freeze, Sleep, Burn, or Paralyze.

Now, it might not seem like a lot, but it's enough to be a huge problem. Let's take the case I've seen it used: Jshin's Breloom.

First, Breloom has to gain control of the field using Spore. Once the opponent has been put to sleep, their torture will begin. (Note that Breloom will commonly hold a Toxic Orb so that, on this turn, he'll become poisoned.) Commonly, you either do this while a slower pokemon is in play, or when your opponent is going to switch because there's a Breloom out.

Now that the opponent is asleep, Breloom sacrifices 1/4th of his HP to put up a Substitute. The opponent usually doesn't wake up here. Sometimes the opponent switches. Either way, Breloom is able to safetly put the Substitute up. End of turn, Breloom recovers 1/8th of his HP (or 50% of the HP lost to the Substitute.)

If the opponent switched and there's no Sleep Clause in play, Breloom can simply put this pokemon to sleep using Spore. Even if the pokemon is faster, Breloom's Substitute will take the damage. Otherwise, Breloom will simply attack, often with a Focus Punch (protected by the Substitute.) Either way, he'll heal 1/8th of his max HP at the end of the turn, once again at full health.

Worst case, Breloom's Substitute is still up and he managed to take out your pokemon, thus the cycle continues. Note that the Spore + Substitute cycle can go on indefinitely ; Breloom will heal all the HP given to Substitutes by the time you've gotten a turn to attack.

The worst part of all this is that, thanks to Poison Heal healing off the damage from Substitute, Breloom can safely switch out to be used later without worrying about all the HP sacrificed. Breloom can come in and score some free kills without you being able to eliminate the threat, only for it to show up later.

Off the top of my head, there seem to be a few good ways to deal with Breloom (at least, this variety):

-Play with Sleep Clause so that he can't put more than one of your pokemon to sleep.
-Taunt (but you'll need it on a pokemon that can survive the attacks and with superior speed... Toxicroak, Gengar, and Crobat appear to be the best options.)
-Dugtrio revenge killing (but only if your dying pokemon manages to take out the Substitute before dying.) Dugtrio will be able to hold Breloom in place and finish it off with an Aerial Ace.


Celebi:
It sounds like, even though it's weak to a bunch of those, it resists them quite well. One of the Smogon sets mentioned is an Ubers scout. Basically, it's EVed in its defensive stats only and, depending on how much damage it takes, you can guess whether or not an opponent's pokemon is using a Choice item. Or something like that.

Truth be told, once I get enough Celebi to start playing around with it, I suspect I'll understand it much better then.  

[KingJack!]

Don't forget Roserade. I use one on my Diamond team, Rain. He's one of the strongest members of my team, in my opinion. Its Speed and Special Attack are to die for, and it's got a nice movepool. It has lots of stalling moves, which I love.

But, of course, it has problems with Steel- and Fire-Types.  

[Esora2]

Not my favorite type of pokemon, but the first pokemon I ever got on the first game was a chicorita and my favorite when I was a child was bulbasaur, so they will always be a great type to me.  

[wellwisher]

Assuming that, because starter pokemon naturally come at a slight advantage. (just overall stat gain, not, uh, you know, for real powerhouse expert team building) and legends are usually excluded and not used. (not that there are many grass legends anyways)

Some grass types are better suited for different things. And it depends on what the other pokemon team members are/fill up team places. but overall Grass is placed mainly for, what?
The weaknesses seem, kind of severe, you know, compared to say, dark, or Dragon.  

[stfuimakitty]

lol there okay^^ I like the dark types but the grass ones are cute...well most of them^^  

[Esora2]

Because there are so many weaknesses with the grass types, I try to teach them moves that will benefit them whenever I can. Such as a water type move in case I ever battle a fire type pokemon.  

[Nadian]

For dealing with fire types, the 4th gen gave us a Grass + Ground with a powerful STAB Earthquake. 3nodding  

[wellwisher]

Nadian

For dealing with fire types, the 4th gen gave us a Grass + Ground with a powerful STAB Earthquake. 3nodding

But it loses it's 50% water resistance. and, I forget, what does it gain?  

[Nadian]

wellwisher

Nadian

For dealing with fire types, the 4th gen gave us a Grass + Ground with a powerful STAB Earthquake. 3nodding

But it loses it's 50% water resistance. and, I forget, what does it gain?

Let's see...

-Immunity to electr (upgrade from resistance)
-Loses its Poison weakness (kind of a pointless gain)
-Gains a Rock resistance


The Ground STAB also allows it to hit Electr, Steel, Poison, and Rock-types (that were previously neutral to Grass, mostly Steel + Rock) in addition to the before-mentioned Fire types.  

[KingJack!]

Nadian

wellwisher

Nadian

For dealing with fire types, the 4th gen gave us a Grass + Ground with a powerful STAB Earthquake. 3nodding

But it loses it's 50% water resistance. and, I forget, what does it gain?

Let's see...

-Immunity to electr (upgrade from resistance)
-Loses its Poison weakness (kind of a pointless gain)
-Gains a Rock resistance


The Ground STAB also allows it to hit Electr, Steel, Poison, and Rock-types (that were previously neutral to Grass, mostly Steel + Rock) in addition to the before-mentioned Fire types.

Oooooh, snap.  

[KingJack!]

Nadian

wellwisher

Nadian

For dealing with fire types, the 4th gen gave us a Grass + Ground with a powerful STAB Earthquake. 3nodding

But it loses it's 50% water resistance. and, I forget, what does it gain?

Let's see...

-Immunity to electr (upgrade from resistance)
-Loses its Poison weakness (kind of a pointless gain)
-Gains a Rock resistance


The Ground STAB also allows it to hit Electr, Steel, Poison, and Rock-types (that were previously neutral to Grass, mostly Steel + Rock) in addition to the before-mentioned Fire types.

Aren't Ground-Grass combos extra-weak to Ice, a common Type in the WiFi circuit?  

[Nadian]

KingJack!

Nadian

wellwisher

Nadian

For dealing with fire types, the 4th gen gave us a Grass + Ground with a powerful STAB Earthquake. 3nodding

But it loses it's 50% water resistance. and, I forget, what does it gain?

Let's see...

-Immunity to electr (upgrade from resistance)
-Loses its Poison weakness (kind of a pointless gain)
-Gains a Rock resistance


The Ground STAB also allows it to hit Electr, Steel, Poison, and Rock-types (that were previously neutral to Grass, mostly Steel + Rock) in addition to the before-mentioned Fire types.

Aren't Ground-Grass combos extra-weak to Ice, a common Type in the WiFi circuit?

Yes. Pretty much the only thing offsetting that disadvantage is the reason Ice is common: Dragons. Since a Grass+Ground is not a dragon, that does make it more dangerous for a few of those anti-dragons. (E.G. Swampert.)

It's a bit of a stretch, though. I'd guess that Torterra hasn't ever been OU. Maybe never even BL.