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 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:38 pm
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I go to a Christian school. In this school, they often say things like "If all the non-Christians knew God's love, they would be Christians (which I already don't totally agree with)
Well, I believe that Jesus is the son of God and he died on the cross for our sins. But I don't 100% know if I want to associate myself with it. It seems that most people think that Christians have to be either for or against God. but I don't agree with many things in the Bible. And in many cases, i'll denty what God says (just how is homosexuality wrong?).
People frequently say to me "You can't just pick and choose what you want to believe in the Bible!" Which I generally respond to by saying "Watch me".
I had a conversation with a teacher that went kinda like this the other day:
Teacher:Megan, do you KNOW that you will go to Heaven.
Me:I don't know, that's God's descision.
Teacher:Well, are you a Christian?
Me:I don't know. I like to think that I am, but there are plenty of bible things I don't agree with.
Teacher:Like what?
Me:Like homosexuality. People can do what they want, nothings wrong with that.
Teacher:But it's GOD'S will that they ot.
Me :*scauffing* Because we're all the experts on what GOD wants, right?
Same with people who ae of differnt religions: They don't deserve Hell for that. You shouldn't be damned for choosing the wrong lottery numbers; what religion you choose is your choice. Do whatt feels right.
Teacher:I'm sure some MURDERERS thought what THEY were doing was right.
Me biggrin id you just compare love and religion to murder?
LOng story short, she told me me& my non-christian friends were going to Hell if we didn't shape up. Eventually , this happened..
Teacher:I'll pray for you.
Me:Why? Nothings wrong, i'm fine.
Teacher:Your spiritial life isn't fine.
Me:Frankly, you don't have the authority to tell me about my life.
What do you think? Can you BELIEVE something like this is true, and still seperate yourself from it?
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 am
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:32 pm
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Hmm, quite a dilemma.
I don't know if I can really help, as I follow no religion, never have, never will. I don't like the idea of having to follow some imaginary deity that dictates my beliefs, thoughts and actions.
But that's not the issue at hand here.
I think you DO believe in God, and you are a Christian. But just because you believe in him does not mean you must agree with 'His will'. You like your best friend, and think the world of them, but you don't agree with everything they say or do.
It's the same with God - you don't have to follow everything that He has said. You believe in homosexuality - that's okay. I believe in it too. What right does God have to dictate the feelings one has for another, regardless of their gender??? He has NO right.
Your teacher was wrong. As long as you still believe in God himself, not necessarily all his dictates, you will have your own spot in Heaven.
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:59 pm
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"Love thine neighbour."
One of the Ten Commandments "God" had dear Moses carve into stone. Does it define love? Does it limit the idea of love to respect or gender?
I don't think so.
The way I equate things, "Christianity" is a combination of Romans originally trying to get the common people to maintain loyalty to the state, observation of nature, and a classically male-dominated hierarchy that doesn't want any new philosophy ruining things for them.
What can I say? I'm a cynical student of history and science.
Christ was a regular Jewish commoner who didn't agree with the centuries old idea that only Roman "war heroes" could make it to heaven while everyone else in the world was damned as all-get-out. It just so happened that a group of men decided to take advantage of this impoverished carpenter's son - then dead about 3-400 years - and wrote down the verbally hand-me-down and, by now, highly inaccurate teachings of the dead guy.
However, due to the increasing strength of Natural Philosophy, they turned some of Yashawa's more generic ideas (Christ is Roman for messenger and means the same as Messiah... which I believe is Hebrew. Yashawa/Joshua is Christ's real name) into specifics. Your issue about homosexuality, for example. The higher-ups observed in nature that males of the same species reproduced with the female species. Therefore, it was fundamentally wrong for same-sex relationships with a sexual or romantic overtone.
(Note: seeing as how "romantic" is rudimentally similar to "Roman," it is logical to assume that by this point in time, "Christian" leaders did not approve of the Roman trend towards homosexuality and *****, historically/culturally thought of as quite normal. Clearly, they had no idea that male seahorses gave birth or a certain type of monkey in Japan has lesbian tendencies.)
Also, the anti-Semitic standpoint of the scriptures is just the manipulations of current opinion of the Bible's various authors because many Jewish citizens were in positions of authority and influence and were the obvious scape-goat of the times.
Again, my personal opinion - you can believe what you like.
If you are honestly certain you wish to follow the teachings of the Bible, dissect and analyse what other people dictate to you - they will most likely try to push their own personal opinions on you just as someone else's opinions were pushed on them.
"Discover Christ" for yourself - worship the Trinity in your heart, for if Christ is Love, and God Knows All and Sees All, then wouldn't they understand why you worship them the way you choose to? You still honour the Sacrifice and understand the Teachings, but - I think - those teachings were originally left up for each individual to understand for themselves.
If a murderer were to kill in the name of God, or in general terms as applies to the Christian mentality, then he is a heretic because he is doing harm to his fellow man and is not expressing the sympathy and compassion Christ expressed to all - regardless of what religion/spiritual view or social standing those people were born into or felt suited them best.
(FYI: You may wish to remind the teacher that the secularisation of religion was not an actual issue until King Henry VII wanted to divorce his royal wife for his mistress because he couldn't get his "Y" sperm to beat out all his "X" sperm. Before that, the Holy Wars were a jumbled mess, the Dark Ages were self-inflicted by the Church and would have allowed society to advance 800 years if otherwise left untouched, and all the other religions [Islam, Judaism etc...] are MUCH older, historically speaking.)
Hope this helps you.
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:43 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:08 am
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Chime Elf Hmm, quite a dilemma.
I don't know if I can really help, as I follow no religion, never have, never will. I don't like the idea of having to follow some imaginary deity that dictates my beliefs, thoughts and actions.
But that's not the issue at hand here.
I think you DO believe in God, and you are a Christian. But just because you believe in him does not mean you must agree with 'His will'. You like your best friend, and think the world of them, but you don't agree with everything they say or do.
It's the same with God - you don't have to follow everything that He has said. You believe in homosexuality - that's okay. I believe in it too. What right does God have to dictate the feelings one has for another, regardless of their gender??? He has NO right.
Your teacher was wrong. As long as you still believe in God himself, not necessarily all his dictates, you will have your own spot in Heaven.
i'm so totally agreeing with you.. you mentioned all i would say here .. ^^ |
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:13 pm
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:57 pm
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:12 pm
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:08 pm
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I don't believe anyone has the right to tell me how I should honor god, be they priest, teacher, parent, or pope. That reason, and that reason alone, is why I do not consider myself a Christian.
Those that do, however, seem to think that people who don't believe exactly as they do are headed straight to hell, do not pass go or collect $200. They prefer to hate and fear god. They try to force their beliefs on others out of their own fear.
God is the only one who has the right to condemn any person who is perceived as a "sinner". Nobody else should tell you what you should believe or how you should worship.
The Bible was written by people who used it to further their own means, and is NOT a pure dictate from God. Choosing not to believe in acts of hatred (like how St. Paul rendered his own misogynistic belief to permeate every act of the Church today, and the letter to the Romans which pronounced hatred of homosexuals, and the willful mistranslation of "thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live" to "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" which resulted in the killing of thousands of innocent people during the Inquisition) does not turn you against god. Love is what matters, as corny as that sounds. Hurting other people--through thought, word, or action--only sets you against God. Even if you do believe things like homosexuality is a sin (which I don't) God forgave sinners. Why can't they?
Religion is too often the haven of the narrow-minded who need to find cause to hate. What about those vigilantes who kill abortion doctors? It's still murder. Even if you believe abortion is wrong (again, which I don't) the Bible says "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." -Ezekiel 3:11. Taking what you believe God's will is into your own hands is only a recipe for destruction.
"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:1-12.
You should tell that to your teacher and see what she says.
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:48 am
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:34 pm
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I'm a Christian myself, but cannot agree with what the church says, or I suppose in some situations, claims.
here's what you have to understand. just like the political parties, there are different types of christians. there are the ones that believe literally everything that the bible says, and the ones that only believe in god, and not in Noah building his Arc. and, there are some that will Damn you for not being a christian, and similarly, feel the need to completely cleanse themselves if they are within 100 miles of a non-christian. my feeling is you are in a school that is leaning towards the completly believing side. I am in one that agrees with what the church says moreso than I do, but still, I don't think they would damn someone for being g ay.
Now, my solution is, I would not go around saying it and flaunting it, considering you are in a Christian school and from sounds they would definitely get you in trouble, but I would believe in what you truly believe in deep down. If you don't stand for what you believe in, than what are you? you don't believe in damning g ays, then don't. I honestly think the church has no idea how god feels about being of a different religion, or orientation. I believe that god accepts that sort of thing, considering it hurts no one to accept people, however, from a m urderer's point of view, they probably believe in . personally, I don't think that any god would accept that sort of thing, as it does hurt someone.
In defense of your teacher however, I wouldn't talk to a teacher that way, it will only got you into trouble. she brings up a good point about m urderers, but here's how I would respond: Yes,m urderers will definitely believe they are right, but they are taking lives;they are taking what isn't theirs, they are stealing. Letting someone be g ay, or of a different religion, or just different in general is letting them be who they are, and giving them the right to be themselves. If the Church were to accept these characteristics, then they would stop commiting Character Assasination.
Kurando
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:17 pm
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Meh, religion.
I'm Christian too, but not nearly as much as my mother would want me to be. It just seems so...one sided. Believe, do all right and beg for forgiveness when you wrong, and you shall get into Heaven. But, I thought our God was all forgiving? Would he really condemn someone to Hell if he is?
My Mom said the other day, when I was running circles around with religion debate, that those who don't know God, don't go to Heaven. So I said, what about secluded people, like tribes? People whom know nothing that isn't passed down among generations. Is it their fault? Them, who cannot help themselves? Would a truly righteous God, send these people to Hell, who never had a chance? |
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:03 am
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(Sorry My bad English)
Is funny... Jesus never wrote a letter in the bible... I'm not Christian, but I believe in God... and that doesn't mean that I will be in the Hell (I don't believe in the hell or in the devil)...
God love us and he always will love us, not matter where are you from, your skin color or your religion.
I believe in Jesus, like I believe in Mahoma, in Krishna, in Baha'u'llah... all are messengers from God to tell us His words...
I don't believe Jesus is God or his "only son", because all of us are God childrens... but some childrens are special. We made a contract with God... he will send his special childrens to show us the way, and we will follow this way.
If you see, when a religion began to be a human religion and finish to be God religion, a new messenger comes...
Jesus come 2000 years ago... with the message for that time... all human evolution are like the grow of a kid.
In the time of Adam and Eva (they are not the first woman and the first man, but they were the first one to know what is good and what is bad) human were baby.
When Jesus came, human were little kids. When Mahoma came human were a kid and now we human are teenagers... (there's more God messengers, but I have no time to talk about all of them)
That meant Adam (he was a God special children) was the baby teacher, Jesus was the little kid teacher, Mahoma the kid teacher and Baha'u'llah is the teenager teacher.
How can we go to the university if we, being teenagers, have a little kid teacher????
If you see... all the special childrens (Buda, Mahoma, krishna, Jesus, etc) have the same message... but the one who come after the other have a little more information.
The Bible wasn't wrote by Jesus... it was wrote by human... and many the things it say a Christian must do Jesus never said that... he has a love message...
All the messengers have a love message, because God is love... The Coran is a book that talk about love... but people change those peace words to war words....
The same with all the Messengers message... and the Messenger itself... people change the message, change the Messenger... why?.... power...
I believe in Jesus... I believe in Buda... I believe in Mahoma.... but I don't believe to the Church... I dont believe the gravies of none of the religions... because they changed they Messenger message and build a religion... because the Messengers doesn't want create a religion... they wanted give to humanity faith and love... the God true message...
Is true God want that we do the correct... but he always will pardon us... no matter the religion were you from... because he love us... and that is something that I believe...
All the religions have the same God... there's not Christian God, Jewish God or Islam God... is the same... I'm sure many people don't believe what I believe... but That's Ok, bacause all the people are free to chose what they want believe...
I'm a Baha'i if you want to know n_n
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:38 pm
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When Jesus came, he replaced all the old rules with one: Love. Isn't that simple? You love and you are saved. Don't listen to the Church if what it says is against that. Church is a human thing. Humans are sophists, not philosophers. Humans always bend the truth according to what they believe is true. If two homosexuals love each other, it's fine. If they only lust after each other, it's not fine.
When the Old Testament was written, the Hebrew people needed to increase their population, hence Leviticus 20:13 and all other nonsenses that won't work today anymore. If I'm not mistaken, there was somewhere in the Bible that says that a man should take as wife his closest female relative that is not forbidden according to Leviticus (so no to father's wife, daughter-in-law, his sister, his uncle's wife, his brother's wife and etc. etc. in Lev 20:10-21). Who would do that today? And, weren't David and Jonathan in love (Book of Samuel)? Hey, their great kind David, love and loved by a man! And that was when he was virtuous.
Oh, is your teacher wearing a cross? Bible said that one has to pray directly to God, not through an idol, statue, symbol or etc. of that sort. Which christian doesn't pray to the crucifix? That's violating the anciant law, my dear.
Also, ask your teacher if he or she is eating shrimp. They shouldn't. See Leviticus 11 for laws related to food.
Seriously, people should understand that certains laws only apply in certain context.
Remember Dante's Comedy? The Church renamed it "Divine Comedy". In the Limbo of Dante's Inferno, the pagan were NOT punished in any way except that they won't be able to see God.
I should mention that the concept of Hell as a punishment was not established until the Middle-Age. In the Old Testament, all souls, good or bad, go to the Sheol. There, they wait for the Judgement Day.
According to Revelations, only one hundred and forty-four thousand souls will have His and His Father's name written on their foreheads. I believe our population is way over that. What will happen to the others? Thrown to Hell? What happened to the Mercy then? It's an image. Everything in the Bible are images. Images are implicit messages.
Let's take a look at the Bible's counterpart, the Satanic Bible. It says basicly that you can do whatever you want as long as you don't harm others. I believe that, but I don't think can do is will do. I don't want to harm myself. Does that ring a bell? Bible. Bible tells you that you have to take care of yourself. Does that mean that the Bible is encouraging selfish thoughts and that Satanic Bible, selfless? Not really. It means that people reading the Bible are mostly selfish hypocrites who only care about sins and punishments and self. Many passages in the Bible tell us to love others, but many only read the part about punishing others. It's the other way around for the Satanic Bible, isn't that funny? Maybe the rumour about Lucifer been redempted and ruling over Purgatory is true.
Humans see what they choose to see, believe what they want to believe. It's Free Will. It's THE Sin. The irony? Without that, you are not human. The fruit of Knowledge did not open our eyes to tell the right from the wrong, but to decide what is right and what is wrong to us. We are not perfect anymore, so our decision might clash with reality. However, we have the intelligence, the Book of Roziel given to us so we could find our way back to Eden. With that, we can try our best to learn the truth.
Because no one can know what is true, for we are all humans, just stick to your own truth and keep moving. No one will know if they win the lottery. Let's all hope that we are the winners. With faith and love, we can win.
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