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Less than daily ramblings from a Gaia developer


carbonphyber
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 @ 08:07pm 16 comments
Gaia's "Growth" efforts... redirected
As a lot of you know, Gaia has focused on changing the site so it works better for new users and to attract more users to sign up. You might remember us testing many different versions of the Logged Out Home Page ("World of Style", "Big Red Button", "What is Gaia", etc). We've also tested many variants of the Registration process and what users see right after registration. We've keenly aware that these changes have affected our loyal Gaians (sometimes negatively) -- we've working on ways to avoid that in the future.

We've noticed that we spend a lot of effort tweaking these things and they seem to make little difference in the percentage of users that sign up and the percentage of users that make it to a place where they can positively contribute to the Gaia community.

Changing Directions
We're in the process of refocusing our efforts. My hope is that we will be able to spend more time fixing core issues with the site (that, by no coincidence, also trip up new users). This will include lots of bug fixes, some minor redesigns, lots of backend code changes, and our "growth" efforts will be more focused on offsite efforts to get more users to navigate to Gaia. Hopefully all Gaians can get behind these efforts as they should create a more positive experience for everyone.

URLs are a changin'
My first few projects involve changing URLs for features like Profiles, Journals, and maybe Guilds so they will look similar to the URLs of Forums. This will be transparent to users (no old URLs will break and they will all automatically redirect you to the newest URL).

Error Pages going purple
Some error screens (like the "404, file not found error, and "critical error", when the databases are overwhelmed or when really bad code is run) will be moved to a new format similar to the purple "login" page. I am removing the "town" theme from these pages as it is confusing to see the town but not your avatar (users report that it makes them think they've been logged out). These pages fundamentally don't know if you're logged in or not so they treat all users as if they are logged out (hence you don't see your avatar at the top).

Possible new feature: "topic pages"
We are also brainstorming ideas for users to benefit more from helping the Gaia community grow. Early ideas include allowing you to earn gold/items from building pages about topics you really enjoy. The more your page attracts users from the internet, the more you will be rewarded. We are not talking about adding those lame "share" widgets on web pages... we are talking about giving you the tools to customize a page about your favorite Manga, Anime, Music, Clothing... whatever topic you choose. Link to Gaia Forums, Guilds, or Journals pages about the topic; create a picture gallery; make polls; link to Avatar Items; etc. The more users that interact with your "topic page"... the more you are rewarded for creating and curating it.


[center:b7fee9207a][img:b7fee9207a]http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq256/carbonphyber/searchbar.png[/img:b7fee9207a][/center:b7fee9207a]



User Comments: [16]
The Undead Suitor
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 @ 11:17pm


I'm wondering how you're going to change the url for profiles.

It's already www.gaiaonline.com/profiles/ [insert user number or name here]


..wouldn't any change make it more confusing?
Hybrid
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 @ 11:37pm


I've enjoyed the shorter, clean URLs (http://www.gaiaonline.com/p/167677) that have been used more recently, so I'm particularly happy if this means the old "profile/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=167677" ones being phased out.
mattmagician
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 @ 04:40am


Please, please don't do topic pages.

Many loyal users already believe Gaia's trying to be facebook, and it needs to stop. If we wanted facebook, we'd go to facebook.
The big thing with "topic pages" would be that users could just snatch up popular subjects.
Naruto, steampunk, pokemon, etc.

Then you'd have hundreds of people trying to make the same page, and it'd just be similar to guilds.

Just a few thoughts.
carbonphyber
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 @ 04:45am


I've already submitted the patch to change Profiles URLs and I'm working on updating Journals now.

The old URLs will be deprecated (meaning they will be phased out and eventually turned off) but will still work (and redirect you to the new URLs) for some time.

Old URLs like:
/p/3
/profiles/3
/profiles/?u=3
/profiles/?username=lanzer
/profile/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3


Will all automatically be changed to:
/profiles/lanzer/3/


This will happen automatically and you should still be able to type the short URL in for a long time to come.

While we also like the short URLs for convenience, they do not help our Google search results rankings. Gaia has one of the most valuable mountain of information on Manga, Anime, Cosplay, Role Playing, Avatar Dressup, etc. and we don't show up on the front page of search results for many of these terms. Our hope is that by making these small changes (like URLs), we will be able to continue to improve the quality of experience and events on Gaia and not have to bother existing users with our efforts to grow the community.
carbonphyber
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 @ 04:49am


@mattmagician We agree with your train of thought.

My feelings are that we should spend the effort to improve Guilds to allow users to do "topic pages" by customizing their guild homepage. Guilds code, however, is old (which means it's a lot of effort). It will take a lot of effort (to a business... that means time and money).

Cross your fingers and hope that "the powers that be" give us time to improve Guilds rather than build a new feature.
PinkFae15
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 @ 12:40pm


"offsite efforts to get more users" ...meaning facebook?

I'm assuming the facebook apps/games(Purigaia, Ocean Party, and now Monster Galaxy) are part of those efforts to get new users over to gaia? That's all fine and dandy but please consider adding those games directly to gaia as well as having them on facebook. I'm sure you're well aware that there seems to be a good chunk of loyal gaia customers that are avid facebook avoiders and it doesn't seem quite fair that we have to go to a third party site to take advantage of all the hard work the devs are putting into the new games. Fair to the users nor the devs for that matter because the people that would truly appreciate their work don't even see it. From a business stand point I can't understand why the higher ups wouldn't include their loyal user base into possible revenue that can be gotten from the facebook only apps/games. For instance, there might be users who would be more than willing to buy cash related elements for those new games, if the games were accessible through gaia but those same users will never even play the new games simply because they are only playable through facebook.

I've felt for a very long time now that gaia should be focusing just as much, if not more, on keeping their loyal users before trying to get new ones. To me, developing these games and then only having them playable on facebook is kinda a slap in the face to your loyal customers. I got a 25$cash card for my birthday(back in July) in addition to cash from completing the bigger offers--and it's just been sitting in my account untouched. One reason being nothing has really come along that I felt was worth spending on(I HATE rigs and rapid EIs) but the other reason is that I haven't felt comfortable making cash purchases from gaia due to the direction the site is heading, and I know I'm not the only one that feels that way either.

Sorry for the rant sweatdrop ... being in a bitter mood makes it so easy to snap. Thanks for all the hard work you do!
SuccuViv
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 @ 04:04pm


▌■Excuse me carbonphyber, but are all the profile URLs going to change to include the actual username of the Gaian?, don't you see that'll be contraproducent?, I mean we can't change our usernumbers, but we can (and many do so) change our usernames, this will just break a lot of things in the future, and will make profile URLs more complicated than needed, I personally think you guys should keep the 3 other URLs that aren't messy:

/profiles/viviettevalentine
/profiles/14714760
/p/14714760

I mean it's not complicated to understand and this system you guys are going to implement is not only longer but it's also complicated, personally I think I speak for most Gaians when I say I like my options.■▐

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carbonphyber
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 @ 05:24am


@Vivette:
The longer URLs are slightly more descriptive, but the actual value of those is that search engine results aren't filled with duplicates. A side effect of this is that our server code is more reusable (so there are fewer possible bugs).
The descriptive URLs will always be up-to-date with your most recent displayable username (the one that shows up on your profile and next to your posts).

"Counterproductive" is a relative term. I can see how users would want short/clean URLs that are easy to memorize -- I agree wholeheartedly. I'm all in favor of making URLs "rememberable".
I don't plan on ever removing the "/p/15535..." or "/p/carbonphyber" variants, only the "/profile/profile.php?u=15535..." URLs and only after a few months of transition where users can get used to the new URL style.
I believe it's counterproductive for Gaia Devs to have to support 6-8 different URLs (and all the server code required to keep them working) when only one is needed to keep the feature working. There are bugs that users can encounter by using the wrong URL (and as a corollary, by clicking on the wrong Google result link).

Believe me when I say I'd rather be upgrading Guilds, fixing bugs, and improving security than changing URLs, but we believe that this is right project to work on right now and there will be almost no impact on users (you will want to update your bookmarks in the next few months).

Also know that I am working on more fun (for both users and myself) projects. I'm working on upgrading trade to use the new "avatar/inventory" tabs (which means users with large inventories will be able to get to any item). I'm fixing the "phish" messages that users get on forums and profile comments. I'm also shrinking the size of web pages that Gaia serves (making Gaia work faster for you).
SuccuViv
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 @ 07:16am


▌■I guess it would be okey as long as if an user change his/her name and the url is old, it still redirect to the user's profile, like let's say my previous username was vivian v schlechter, if there's a link like this:

profiles/vivianvschlechter/14714760

would it redirect to "profiles/viviettevalentine/14714760" or it would just go to "general error"?, because if it's the second, then I would say this change is for the worst x_x■▐

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Endrael
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Mon Dec 06, 2010 @ 08:47am


Quote:
My feelings are that we should spend the effort to improve Guilds to allow users to do "topic pages" by customizing their guild homepage. Guilds code, however, is old (which means it's a lot of effort). It will take a lot of effort (to a business... that means time and money).

Cross your fingers and hope that "the powers that be" give us time to improve Guilds rather than build a new feature.


-------

This is where I'm confused. If we already have a feature that needs updating and which would serve exactly the same purpose as "topic pages" if it were updated, with said in-need-of-updating feature already having a lot of user generated content that can be thrown into it right from the outset, why go through the trouble of making an entirely new feature? That essentially doubles the necessary workload by leaving the old feature in need of an update and adding yet another feature that will eventually need to be updated as well. Why not simply write a new backend for guilds that incorporates the proposed functionality for the new feature? That's two problems solved at the same time while also reducing the long-term workload (which, tbh, gaia often seems incapable of taking into account).

I know there's the whole issue of the last "major" updates to guilds not making any significant impact on guild usage, but the last updates to guilds also didn't add anything that would necessarily make them any more attractive to use. Sure, we got guild announcements, but unless the guild already has a core of active users, those aren't a very effective tool for improving guild activity (speaking from personal experience). Being able to make guilds more dynamic (more customizable home page, subforums list available everywhere in the guild, using the guild bank to run contests, and any number of other features that have been requested and compiled (old thread is old, but, sadly, still relevant) in various threads in SF) would do more to increase activity than updating the guild mod tools and adding guild announcements and a "recent activity" pane.
carbonphyber
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 @ 07:09am


Endrael
This is where I'm confused. If we already have a feature that needs updating and which would serve exactly the same purpose as "topic pages" if it were updated, with said in-need-of-updating feature already having a lot of user generated content that can be thrown into it right from the outset, why go through the trouble of making an entirely new feature?
You are not confused at all, you are thinking rationally... but you are not thinking like a company. Gaia has limited resources and when resources are scarce, the company will prioritize which feature gets the attention, how much, and when.

Building a new feature is 5x-10x faster (which also means cheaper) than trying to fix an existing feature that needs a lot of changes. Our problem is that it seems like Guilds never gets prioritized because it's such a large feature and the code is difficult to change.
styx_n_stones
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 @ 02:01pm


So.....does that mean we may see a housing update (either items or a rewritten system) in the near future???. after all...its been nearly 4 years since it was touched (store updatewise....even longer for the arranger)

This is the reason people lose interest in features...because they are never updated, and then you remove them BECAUSE people have lost interest...and you wonder why???
carbonphyber
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 @ 09:02pm


styx_n_stones
So.....does that mean we may see a housing update (either items or a rewritten system) in the near future???. after all...its been nearly 4 years since it was touched (store updatewise....even longer for the arranger)

This is the reason people lose interest in features...because they are never updated, and then you remove them BECAUSE people have lost interest...and you wonder why???


I doubt it. The only developer that ever worked on Housing no longer works at Gaia and nobody else here knows that code. The fact that it's 4 years old makes it less likely to get updated because it's more expensive to update (it will take a developer longer to update old code that they've never seen than new code that they have worked with before).

I personally think that Houses is one of the worst experiences on the site but the staff is mixed on their opinions.

In all likelihood, if it does get updated, it will likely end up sharing code with GOnline.com's flash spaces.
Endrael
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Sat Dec 11, 2010 @ 06:49pm


Quote:
You are not confused at all, you are thinking rationally... but you are not thinking like a company. Gaia has limited resources and when resources are scarce, the company will prioritize which feature gets the attention, how much, and when.

Building a new feature is 5x-10x faster (which also means cheaper) than trying to fix an existing feature that needs a lot of changes. Our problem is that it seems like Guilds never gets prioritized because it's such a large feature and the code is difficult to change.

----
Why not simply write a new backend for guilds, then? All the threads are a separate database, I assume (although I'm likely wrong about that, given how gaia didn't plan well at all for future expansion until the last two or three years), and the general guild settings (owner/crew/member list, visible/hidden/private, etc.) wouldn't be terribly difficult to migrate over. Unless the code is so sloppy for the current guilds backend, everything important should be lumped together and relatively easy to pull out and put into a new backend.

I understand the reasoning behind wanting to build a new feature because it's faster, but, like I said, long term, it makes a lot more sense to take a little more time to update an existing feature and make it (relatively) future proof as opposed to adding a second feature and compounding the long term problem of needing to maintain that new feature when it gets old as well as maintaining the older feature when it inevitably breaks entirely. Intelligent companies take this sort of thing into account when dealing with updates, and while, in some cases, it does make sense to carry over legacy coding (handling of ftp is pretty well set, for example, so the only thing about it that needs updating when carried over in an OS update is the gui side and how other programs call it when it needed), but if two problems can be taken care of with one solution, why not use that one solution instead of going through with two or three or four or however many other solutions that will, ultimately, just bog things down?

No one uses HTML2 anymore, but it seems to me that not prioritizing an update to guilds to solve several problems at once is akin to doing just that. It's a lot of unnecessary work later that just doesn't need to be there.
Floriography
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Tue Jan 11, 2011 @ 05:44pm


I'm worried about these url changes....
carbonphyber
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Tue Jan 11, 2011 @ 09:32pm


@Floriography
I replied to your topic in Site Feedback.
User Comments: [16]
 
 
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